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Post by v on Mar 3, 2016 2:54:44 GMT -5
Hey hey! I posted this in the fb group but wanted to bring it over here for y'all as well. Here are my thinky thoughts on Carol and some speculation on her story as well as Caryl.
first off, I HATE the fact Carol is going to suffer MORE fucking pain. Everyone else has been given these great moments of lightness ( and have been since season 4) but not our girl. what does she get? more pain. If this is gimples way of treating his favorite character I wish he would pick someone else for that not so great position.
I wonder how much of Daryl's new found grumpy cat is because of what's going on with Carol. For as desperate as he was in consumed to reach her, I have a tough time believing he is totally obilvious to what is going on with her. I am frustrated that it seems that everyone has brushed Carol aside, but thinking back on her, she is good at hiding and good at being invisiable. Between being wrapped up in new babies and new loves for most of TF it's kind of easy to see how they are missing it. But Daryl? how??? I wonder if she is avoiding him? I also think and said this before I think Gimple was keeping them apart for a reason. Carol and Daryl have always had each others backs so there is no way he would just not notice.
Carol has been struggling with the things she has to do to protect her family since killing David and Karen. we've seen it on screen and heard it from Mel and tptb when they talk about how she doesn't like killing and how hard this is on her. I think when they split the comic Andrea up, they gave Sasha the sharp shooting skills, Michonne the Rick love story and Carol (bless her) got every bit of doubt Andrea ever had about the things she has had to do.
I find it interesting that daryl is being exposed to all the relationships just as Carol is ready to break emotionally, to allow herself to feel it. that is deliberate. How many times has NR said "Daryl doesn't understand relationships"? Picking up soda for Denise as a gift for Tara? how many times has he done little things like that for Carol.
While the A/R/S triangle sucks balls, of all the people for him to talk about settling down with it was Daryl? really? but remember the first time Abe met Carol was when Daryl ran to her and hugs her like he found his long lost love. He also watched Carol be the only one that could get to Daryl after Grady and the loss of Ty. Abe in his way Helped Sasha (kind of) work her way through the loss of Ty.
there was a reason they paired A/S/D up at the beginning of the season and I feel it was to establish those bonds so Abe would feel like he could say something like that to daryl. Daryl's response takes on a new meaning when you think about how Carol is doing right now and if you factor in my idea that Carol is trying to hide, even from Daryl. He knows her better than anyone and would be able to see that she is hiding but lacks the skills to reach her. Que Denise and Daryl's new relationship.
I think Morgan and his kumbiya bs is getting to Carol because she was already weighed down with her own feelings of guilt and her belief she was going to hell for doing the things she has done. Why add Ryan to her list of people and not say Erin? ( the lady she had to put down while holding her in her arms during JSS) Ryan was bit and was not bit in a place that could be amputated. Then I remembered, Ryan was the first person she knew that she had to put down. Before that, she had taken out walkers but had NEVER had to put down a friend, someone that entrusted his children to her. Ryan haunts her because she couldn't protect Lizzie and Mika from the very tragic state of Lizzie.
The termites and the Wolves are harder to justify as to why they were added other than those moments were when Carol stood up and did what needed to be done to protect her family. that was never her role. Watch, Cooking, organizing, care taker, those were her roles. now she is also warrior and with Morgan's all life is precious ( it sounds better when you say the precious in a Gollum voice... trust me on that) she feels she is losing who she is. ( as she told Daryl, "she got burned away") Carol hasn't had a chance to remake herself and she is lost right now. Who does she become?
As I type this, I find much of this ties back to Consumed and her thoughts and feelings in that ep. ( go rewatch it and then think about 5b and 6... see if you are seeing what I am seeing) Another reason I think they have kept Caryl seperated ties into the converstations in consumed. So Why hasn't she gone to Daryl with this? "You wanted me to try, this is me trying" He said that to her when he refused the gun. Carol has never been one to want to be a burden or at least she has never wanted to be in a position where she thinks she is a burden. She sees Daryl trying, hell she sees all of them trying and is letting them. She wants to keep these people safe ( hence the undercover Carol when they first got to ASZ).as long as they are trying, she will not share her pain with ANY of them.
Carol was not in ep 10 because it was a lighter ep. there was plenty of humor and that is NOT where she is right now. Can't show her suffereing if she was giggling and what not a couple eps before.
In closing, this is going to be a rough next few eps and it's going to blow for those of us that love her. SG's story telling style leaves much to be desired. he drags out some story lines while rushing other. it's taken us almost two seasons to see Carol deal with the weight of the things she has had to do because of SG's love for emotionally destroying not only Carol but her fans as well. The problem is his vision is NOT translating well to the screen and the drag out is not working. People forget that the first half of 6 was over 2 days. not 6 months. People forget that before the group met Aaron, it had been what 4-5weeks since the beginning of season 4? ( 17 days after grady, 10 days between herschel's death and Beth's death, 2- three days before Herschels' death was 30 days, per able in the last ep a month had passed since ep 6.9) Gimple doesn't like to pin point time frames or anything else for that matter ( come on Gimp, we all know Carol saw the shine shack fire.)
Another piece to my thinking right now goes back to what I said in season 4 about Carol taking on the comic Michonne relationship with Rick. For those that don't know the comics Michonne is a bad ass plagued by the things she has done but especially by her losses. Including her inability to be totally open and 100% "in" lher relationships. Sounds familiar???
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 3, 2016 3:36:41 GMT -5
v Everything you're saying is plausible but I don't trust Gimple right now. The only thing I'm sure of is Carol taking on Michonne's storyline from the comic sans the sleeping around parts. This doesn't bode well to me because this means she could be in self-exile for a lot longer. Regarding Consumed: I don't know how many times I've wondered what was the point. We went from the hug felt around the world (remind me to trademark this), to Daryl sticking to Carol like glue so she couldn't run away, to an entire episode of them speaking philosophical mumbo jumbo about him being a man and her burning away to what we have now which is zilch. I don't get it so my expectations are lower than low.
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Post by v on Mar 3, 2016 3:42:13 GMT -5
v Everything you're saying is plausible but I don't trust Gimple right now. The only thing I'm sure of is Carol taking on Michonne's storyline from the comic sans the sleeping around parts. This doesn't bode well to me because this means she could be in self-exile for a lot longer. Regarding Consumed: I don't know how many times I've wondered what was the point. We went from the hug felt around the world (remind me to trademark this), to Daryl sticking to Carol like glue so she couldn't run away, to an entire episode of them speaking philosophical mumbo jumbo about him being a man and her burning away to what we have now which is zilch. I don't get it so my expectations are lower than low. Lord knows I am not a fan of gimple's storytelling. He's a great ep writer but shit as far as cohesise storytelling and don't get me started on the way he runs the show lol. This was my attempt to make sense of what the story is trying to tell and how it ties together. Personally I want to take Carol away from him since he can't seem to be nice to her. . I get a strong comic Michonne vibe from the direction the story has been going and that saddens me because in a lot of ways comic Michonne is a tragic character.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 3, 2016 3:53:14 GMT -5
I wish I could go back to a time when I was a ride or die shipper for these two, but I've been broken too many times. I'm seriously jealous of the wonderfully devoted shipper trash who anxiously await Daryl's reaction when he finds out Carol (and Maggie) have been kidnapped. Many expect something like this While I fully expect this Like I said, I've been broken.
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Post by v on Mar 3, 2016 4:26:05 GMT -5
I wish I could go back to a time when I was a ride or die shipper for these two, but I've been broken too many times. I'm seriously jealous of the wonderfully devoted shipper trash who anxiously await Daryl's reaction when he finds out Carol (and Maggie) have been kidnapped. Many expect something like this While I fully expect this Like I said, I've been broken. I'm expecting something in between lol... and if I don't get it, I'll just fic it! I'm ride or Die Caryl even if it's only in fan fiction.
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Post by webergal on Mar 3, 2016 18:25:03 GMT -5
I don't know if it belongs on this thread but I was going to ask what's up with Denise all of sudden interacting with Daryl?
In my book, Daryl belongs with Carol and if anybody should have been bringing some cake to Daryl, it should have been Carol, not Denise. Denise did mention to Daryl that he reminded her of somebody but still, it should have been Carol with the cake or snack.
I'm not sure why the writers are not having Daryl pay more attention to what's going on with Carol. Daryl should have been down right pissed to hell and back with what Morgan did slamming Carol on the cement floor. Daryl should have taken the time to talk with Carol and make sure she's okay. Daryl should have knocked the crap out of Morgan or at least give him one hell of a good "talkin' to." !!
But I also realize that Daryl is Rick's right hand man, so in that sense, Daryl can't be two places at one time. But just once, I'd like Daryl to tell Rick that he wants to spend some time with Carol, that she seems depressed and needs a friend.
It does seems like nobody is noticing on the show that Carol is withdrawing emotionally.
I mean, Daryl doesn't have to jump in bed with Carol, or talk any sweet nothings, etc., but just be there for her as a friend, a dear friend, a confident, somebody she can trust to talk to, or cry with. She needs a good cry, to let it all out, all the things that have happened, what she has had to do.
The people in the past that Carol has had to kill, human beings, in her mind, there was always a good reason, a cause, a purpose that would prevent further deaths, it was always for the team, never just to murder somebody, never for her own gratification or revenge.
But this time with Morgan, I think she's conflicted between just not liking him, and that he's dangerous to the lives of the people she cares about and is trying to help protect. That conflict in her mind goes back to why she killed Karen and David, that was to prevent further deaths, right or wrong, should she have played God. Same with Lizzie, she would have killed or caused others to be killed, plus she killed her sister and was going to kill Judith. Again, Carol had to play judge, jury and executioner.
I'm not including Terminus as that was war and she was there to save Rick and all the others.
So is that a good reason for Carol to kill Morgan? He has already caused deaths during the Wolf attack on Alexandria, would have got Denise killed, and in all rights, tried to kill Carol. Carol realizes that Morgan is not there to help protect anybody and instead to convert the enemy, and he is dangerous to have around with his "all lives are precious" crap.
But Morgan is Rick's friend so in Carol's mind, what should she do? She may even be afraid to talk to Daryl about this. Perhaps it's Carol avoiding Daryl for these reasons.
Just my own thoughts.... 8-)
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 3, 2016 20:34:47 GMT -5
webergal I have no idea why Gimp is keeping Carol and Daryl apart. It makes no damn sense. Take all idea of shipping out of it. They've been each other's person from the beginning. She comforts him; he comforts her and now they barely breathe the same air and Gimp doesn't give any explanation for it.
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Meggo358
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 3, 2016 21:57:24 GMT -5
webergal I think a lot of it is probably just lazy writing, but it paints a less than consistent picture of the daryl and carol friendship. Given that Daryl is the only person who really has an idea of what she's been through - not the details, but at least a knowledge that she's been a bit traumatized - it seems almost cruel that to not show daryl reaching out. I think (and this is making way too many assumptions I realize) Norman Reedus might be aware of how strange it seems for daryl to not be involved in the morgan story line in particular - I recall him liking a meme suggesting Daryl would get revenge on Morgan for what he did to carol. Perhaps it was his own reference to how he'd prefer the story be told? As for Daryl and Denise - I'm glad he has a new friend, but I just assume she's the latest supporting character the show is pairing with daryl for the sake of building them up for the audience. Hopefully the outcome of Denise's build up will go more in the Aaron way and less in the beth way :-/
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Post by webergal on Mar 4, 2016 0:53:15 GMT -5
It does seem like the writers are jumping a whole story line relationship and rushing other stories.
I know that Daryl was never part of the graphic novel and in the novel at this point in the story, living in Alexandria, Carol's character is already dead, so gee, the writers actually have to write new material !!
Maybe THAT is the problem as you say, lazing writing !
The three things I think should have happened is .....
1) There should have been a confrontation back in S4 (ep4 "Indifference") when Daryl found out Rick had exiled Carol to doom. How could they have not included that part of the story? I was pissed off to hell and back, and we needed to see a big reaction from Daryl.
2) In S5 (ep1 "No Sanctuary") there should have been some follow up when Carol and Daryl were reunited after she saved them at Terminus. I know Daryl is a redneck but that doesn't make him stupid but the writers seem to want to make him not so attentive to notice that Carol was having depression issues back then (ep6 "Consumed").
3) Once the Morgan issue came up in S6 (ep2 "JSS") after Alexandria was attacked by the wolves, writers should of had Daryl checking on Carol with immediate support but instead the writers came up with a 90 episode on Morgan's mind set journey. But then all hell broke loose in Alexandria and now we have this issue with Morgan and Carol. So within those two missing months of story telling, before ep10, we have no clue what was going on after they killed all the walkers. Heck, I would have settled for a flashback of Daryl giving Carol a hug, telling her he'll always have her back, and telling Morgan where to get off the train.
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Post by nana on Mar 4, 2016 2:28:09 GMT -5
I think Carol is distancing herself from Daryl. She rides in a separate vehicle than him in the next episode an we see him looking at her as she stands apart from the group in the trailer.
I think we will find out in a scene between them that Daryl is much more aware of her self-induced seclusion than we are aware at this time. I think there was a little bit of foreshadowing of that when he told Jesus "She aint here." He is aware of her.
For those of us that believe Daryl told Abe, 'Do you think she'd settle?" this withdrawal on her part might be feeding that belief on his part. Daryl might be very troubled that she is struggling and withdrawing and not sure what to do.
I think they are being separated for a specific purpose. I think it will be revealed when they finally have a scene between just the two of them. I don't know what it will be. It could be good or just pfft.
I am one of the fangirls that is hoping Daryl goes apeshit when he finds out she is abducted. I am worried we will get head-scratching Daryl. We may get something in-between. I have little faith at this point.
I am trying to hold Norman to Daryl becomes the person he wants to be and would make Merle proud.
And, I keep telling myself that 4b felt the exact same way.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 4, 2016 3:00:16 GMT -5
It does seem like the writers are jumping a whole story line relationship and rushing other stories. I know that Daryl was never part of the graphic novel and in the novel at this point in the story, living in Alexandria, Carol's character is already dead, so gee, the writers actually have to write new material !! Maybe THAT is the problem as you say, lazing writing ! The three things I think should have happened is ..... 1) There should have been a confrontation back in S4 (ep4 "Indifference") when Daryl found out Rick had exiled Carol to doom. How could they have not included that part of the story? I was pissed off to hell and back, and we needed to see a big reaction from Daryl. 2) In S5 (ep1 "No Sanctuary") there should have been some follow up when Carol and Daryl were reunited after she saved them at Terminus. I know Daryl is a redneck but that doesn't make him stupid but the writers seem to want to make him not so attentive to notice that Carol was having depression issues back then (ep6 "Consumed"). 3) Once the Morgan issue came up in S6 (ep2 "JSS") after Alexandria was attacked by the wolves, writers should of had Daryl checking on Carol with immediate support but instead the writers came up with a 90 episode on Morgan's mind set journey. But then all hell broke loose in Alexandria and now we have this issue with Morgan and Carol. So within those two missing months of story telling, before ep10, we have no clue what was going on after they killed all the walkers. Heck, I would have settled for a flashback of Daryl giving Carol a hug, telling her he'll always have her back, and telling Morgan where to get off the train. I agree with all of this. Every. Single. Word. And I realize I sound like a broken record but Daryl's lukewarm reaction to Carol's banishment will always tick me off. I really should get over it but my anger keeps me warm at night, so no.
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Post by nana on Mar 4, 2016 9:24:26 GMT -5
Oh, I edited my post last night to include this but I don't see it now. They are really using the "here" thing in several contexts. Carol told Daryl "I'm still here"in Consumed....to me that had double meaning...she was still alive but she also still had the essence of who she is -- we saw that in the next scene when she begged Daryl to save Noah.
She told Mary "I'm not here and neither are you."
Daryl says "She's not here." Carol isn't in the room, but I think Gimple was also using that to say Daryl knows Carol isn't herself right now....
so I am betting on Daryl is onto a lot of Carol's struggle right now...he doesn't know exactly how to help her..and hopefully they will have a scene together dealing with that....
but one never knows.
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Meggo358
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 4, 2016 14:46:06 GMT -5
I have never seen Carol distance herself from daryl purposefully (not even after Sophia, and she set her own turmoil aside to comfort him about Beth's death) so I don't see the distance between the two is coming from her. I think, in a non romantic way, Daryl has in fact "settled down". He has new friends and a new role and routine which has suited him nicely. It may just be he's moved on and Carol is still figuring out how to cope with things to do the same.
I don't believe we'll get much of a reaction from him when Carol is taken given how distant their stories have been. I know they'll have some interactions this season, but after all this time it's hard for me to imagine the show can recapture the closeness they once had. I wonder if the interaction they do have this season will be more "wrap up" than "revisiting"?
I hope my comments don't sound too negative. I just see this as a possible scenario.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 4, 2016 19:51:57 GMT -5
Meggo358 I'm so broken I live in negativity so please keep on speculating. At this point your guess is as good as any. It's all good.
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Post by nana on Mar 4, 2016 21:36:30 GMT -5
I think Daryl always will have Carol's back...but I think the culmination of everything.. and I think we will see a new burden added to Carol this episode...just becomes too much to bear for her. She definitely was trying to pull away in 5a...but Daryl was tenacious. I think we will see that tenacity again. No scenes doesn't mean he hasn't been caring.
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Meggo358
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 4, 2016 23:35:03 GMT -5
nana - super curious what you mean by "new burden" in this episode...will you elaborate? : ) I do think there's evidence with this shows storytelling that what you say is true: that just because we aren't seeing something on screen doesn't mean it's not a part of the show - and that the audience is supposed to assume certain things, particualry in terms of how the characters care for each other. I've struggled with that, as I usually just think "well, the show is going to show us what it believes matters", which is why carols isolation and lack of support (particularly from Daryl, who is really the only living person who knows something is wrong) is such a difficult thing for me. But I've been proven wrong before, so we'll see!
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Post by dark sister on Mar 7, 2016 3:07:00 GMT -5
I'm still baffled that none of her family notices this front she's putting on. She still lives in the same house with the Grimes, Michonne, Daryl. She's smoking and wearing Suzy clothes. You're really going to tell me that no one is wondering why she's doing this when they know the real Carol and not the front? It's frustrating.
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Post by dark sister on Mar 24, 2016 7:31:52 GMT -5
I'm bumping this thread because I continue to be completely disappointed over her misery business story. I cannot believe what Gimple has broken down Carol to right now. My thoughts on this go up and down, sometimes I think Gimple is trying to make the audience hate Carol like Mazarra did Andrea, other times I think he's going to build her back up and find a good balance. At this point, it looks like the only way to go is up for Carol. Hopefully, anyways.
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Meggo358
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 24, 2016 8:13:09 GMT -5
I don't think gimple cares enough to try to get the audience to hate Carol (though that will happen to some degree - this audience has very little tolerance for the struggles of female characters - I've already seen many say that they've loved Carol but feel she should be killed off because she's "useless" now) - I don't think gimple thinks about this show with the audience in mind but how he can convert the comics onscreen in a way that will fill many seasons for AMC.
I have to assume Carol is taking on many of michonnes comic arcs which involve more isolation and self doubt, from what I understand. I don't know how good of a story any of that will be, given how much carols story and personality had to be adjusted in such an inorganic way this season to make it happen. I think I would feel a lot better about this if it had happened last season - the connection to Lizzie and the events of the Grove as well as terminus/kravid - a breakdown of sorts would certainly make sense. But at this point it just feels like the show is content to have Carol be the recipient of misery as the others on the show enjoy their sex, friendship and soda pop (not to discount what others have gone though - my point though is that others seem to get breaks in the misery while Carol doesn't).
It's incredibly sad the way they've removed all of the immensely satisfying development had over a few seasons in order to (I assume) fit her into a story which doesn't quite ring true or fit her character.
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Post by walkingdeadrules on Mar 24, 2016 8:49:59 GMT -5
I agree with what so many of you have said. I've been vocal before about my feelings that GImple is trying desperately to retrofit iconic comic storylines using existing characters which makes them act OOC, and is just plain out ridiculous some times. What makes it more ridiculous is they have proven time and again that original material they write can be some of the best episodes(The Grove and two weeks ago the episode with Maggie and Carol In the Same Boat being prime examples). But I do want to offer a somewhat different perspective.
WHile I, too, would like to see some "happy time" for Carol and not all misery and find some of the things that are being done borderline character assasination, I do have to say that I am still happy. No, I am not psychotic. I am happy because Carol is alive. Not only is she alive, but she is front and center and getting some story line and screen time.
I honestly believe Gimple likes the character of Carol, and even more so, has seen the incredible talent that is MMB and pushes to write for that. It would have been EASY for him to write her off and/or kill her. SHe is an original character, and since we've already established that Rick, Carl and Daryl are probably seen as "untouchables" that really just leaves Glenn and Carol of the Atlanta 5 to kill off. We know they need a "maximum impact kill", and we all know there were plenty of people calling for Carol's head all along. Not to mention the contingency that were constantly predicting Carol and Glenn's imminent demise(and no doubt will do so every season no matter what).
To me, Gimple has made a strategic decision to keep Carol alive, and even more so, keep her storyline front and center and for that I am very grateful. I may not like or agree with aspects of it, but I'd prefer THAT than seeing MMB killed. WHile I know those aren't the only two options, I also genuinely believe that Gimple sees MMB as the best opportunity to get some sort of an acting award for the show(which we all know she is, but also doubt they'll ever get), and giving her this kind of angst is exactly what is needed for that. Even if she doesn't win an award, it shows off her acting chops and I've already made posts of people noticing her acting abilities due to that.
FOr those of you who just want to see her "settle down and happy with Daryl" please remember that scenerio would definitely lead to a quick death for one or both of them. There isn't happiness like that in a ZA, heck even a regular soap opera once couples get together and are happy it means one of them will cheat, one will get sick and or/die, or they just leave town. I know, I know....they don't have to be written that way, it's lazy writing, etc,,. But if we are going to be honest with ourselves, there is more limited storyline for a "happy couple", there has to be conflict and in Daryl's case in particular, any female coupled with him will have a nasty backlash effect. Especially Carol(the Bethylers will lose their minds..literally). I've also always thought that a firm coupling of those two is a foreshadowing of one of their deaths(sorry) though I certainly never saw Tobin as anything more than a plot device and do see them SLOWLY driving Caryl closer together and enjoy the slow burn for all of those reasons. I do see that as an end game. But a very slow, tedious one.
So...while I agree with what everyone says about how frustrating alot of this is, I do take a step back and am grateful to see our queen MMB gracing our screen and getting a lot of screen time. I'm very happy that Carol isn't even a part of the line up at season's end so I don't have to wonder what will happen to her. Also excited at some future separate storylines for her(with the Kingdom?) for Season 7. The best actresses are always given a lot of misery to portray, it shows off their acting chops. MMB has a lot of chops to show off.
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yuna
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Post by yuna on Mar 24, 2016 14:02:56 GMT -5
I don't like what Gimple is doing with Carol Character and I hate seeing people hating on my favorite character. She gets so much hate from this stupid Fandom why does he let Carol be so miserable and sad all time now. I guess he thinks it great storytelling to see Carol go through so much suffering. AMC probably thinks if they kept giving Carol dark heartache storylines they might finally get a emmy nominations.
I am happy that Gimple loves Carol and Melissa and he see potential in her and sometimes he does stand up for her character. And I do like that Gimple somewhat feels protective with the Carol character when people try to hate on her Gimple stand up for her but I wish he would just let Carol find happiness.
I honestly believe that Gimple doesn't really care for the Daryl Character I think if he had it his way Daryl would be gone. I mean look at the storylines he gives him it's the same storyline ever year. Daryl gets close to someone and that person dies then we have Daryl cry over some blonde girl. How many times are we going to see this storyline he blamed himself for Sophia death then next blonde was Beth now Denise just look at the pattern here no wonder why Norman is not happy with his storyline. Who would be happy having the same storyline every year and never getting something new.
That's why part of me thinks that's why Caryl hasn't happen yet he doesn't care for Daryl so he doesn't want him with his favorite character Carol. I think Gimple wants to kept Daryl faraway from his favorite character who is Carol. Or maybe Gimple doesn't care for Norman I always wonder if Gimple likes Norman. Remember when Norman trolled Bethyl Gimple said that was never going to happen. Poor Gimple got attack from crazy Bethylers because of Norman trolling. If I was Gimple I wouldn't care for Norman.
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Post by booksrbetter on Mar 24, 2016 15:25:49 GMT -5
Maggie and Glenn have been together for five seasons and two years. Happy and in love. Michonne and Rick seem headed for long time bliss. So long term happy couples aren't an impossibility. I am working on my positivity. I'm thinking that Carol leaving the group isn't quite as bad as it sounds. Surely the writers won't write the Kingdom as bad as the comics. Take that Comicstans. Carol gets a chance to heal. Maybe she won't be heavily involved in the coming war and those that hate RamboCarol will shut the hell up. (Sorry for the language) Daryl can either stay in Alexandria or move to the Kingdom. It's not that far. He can visit. Or eventually the Kingdom moves to Hilltop and/or Alexandria. Carol away from Tobin works for me.
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Post by nana on Mar 24, 2016 20:45:21 GMT -5
Maybe Carol moving to the Kingdom, if she does, will get Daryl off his butt and take some action. Enough already.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 24, 2016 21:12:16 GMT -5
I absolutely hate her arc. My main problems with it:
1. It's plot driven and not character driven. The OCCness of Carol is a crime.
2. Certain parts of her story should have had resolution at least one season ago. We should not still be waiting for her to talk about the girls. We should not still be talking about her banishment.
3. She should not be linked to a random redshirt. Period. Who the fuck is Tobin and why the hell is he being given this much attention? No answer will satisfy me.
4. Her isolation from TF seems forced and is more proof that Gimple is oblivious why relationships developed over seasons need to be maintained.
I'm not happy, if you can't tell. Nope, not happy at all.
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Meggo358
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 24, 2016 21:12:24 GMT -5
I'm already thinking of the kingdom as a certainly at this point. Premature? Yes, but this show isn't subtle - and given how much they've done to remove her from team family's orbit I think it's a strong possibility. At this point, I'm fine with it - she needs to move beyond where she is mentally and if the ASZ is a toxic place for her then it's the right thing. nana it's hard to say with Daryl. After so many seasons mirroring each other's story the one difference is that Daryl has stayed essentially the same since season three. In order for him to make a change something would have to truly shake him. I'm not saying there aren't opportunites for that but gimple seems to prefer Daryl so much as a character that is consistent, rather than evolving. Maybe season 7 will be a break from all of this if gimple has satisfied his comic lust.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 24, 2016 21:15:13 GMT -5
I'm already thinking of the kingdom as a certainly at this point. Premature? Yes, but this show isn't subtle - and given how much they've done to remove her from team family's orbit I think it's a strong possibility. At this point, I'm fine with it - she needs to move beyond where she is mentally and if the ASZ is a toxic place for her then it's the right thing. nana it's hard to say with Daryl. After so many seasons mirroring each other's story the one difference is that Daryl has stayed essentially the same since season three. In order for him to make a change something would have to truly shake him. I'm not saying there aren't opportunites for that but gimple seems to prefer Daryl so much as a character that is consistent, rather than evolving. Maybe season 7 will be a break from all of this if gimple has satisfied his comic lust. I don't trust Gimple and I expect Carol to be moping (not the right word, but it's all I got right now) the Kingdom too. I doubt she'll find any kind of happiness or peace there because Gimple thinks the way to an Emmy nomination is an unhappy Carol. Damn, I'm bitter!
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Meggo358
Retired Moderator
Aspiring Furiosa
Posts: 1,749
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 24, 2016 21:16:43 GMT -5
I absolutely hate her arc. My main problems with it: 1. It's plot driven and not character driven. The OCCness of Carol is a crime. 2. Certain parts of her story should have had resolution at least one season ago. We should not still be waiting for her to talk about the girls. We should not still be talking about her banishment. 3. She should not be linked to a random redshirt. Period. Who the fuck is Tobin and why the hell is he being given this much attention? No answer will satisfy me. 4. Her isolation from TF seems forced and is more proof that Gimple is oblivious why relationships developed over seasons need to be maintained. I'm not happy, if you can't tell. Nope, not happy at all. Sexual chocolate I believe "bullshit" is the word you are looking for. Im kind of regarding gimples approach to this season the way I would a toddler throwing a tantrum: just let him do what he has to do and expend all his energy and then we can move on. In gimples case, his desire to shoehorn in Lennie James and therefore stretch out carols story of misery and also get his comic fix with negan should be his tantrum of sorts. I'm hoping (but not hopeful, if that makes sense) that the story will be more on track next season if he doesn't have all these story "tasks" on his to do list
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Meggo358
Retired Moderator
Aspiring Furiosa
Posts: 1,749
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Post by Meggo358 on Mar 24, 2016 21:23:51 GMT -5
I'm already thinking of the kingdom as a certainly at this point. Premature? Yes, but this show isn't subtle - and given how much they've done to remove her from team family's orbit I think it's a strong possibility. At this point, I'm fine with it - she needs to move beyond where she is mentally and if the ASZ is a toxic place for her then it's the right thing. nana it's hard to say with Daryl. After so many seasons mirroring each other's story the one difference is that Daryl has stayed essentially the same since season three. In order for him to make a change something would have to truly shake him. I'm not saying there aren't opportunites for that but gimple seems to prefer Daryl so much as a character that is consistent, rather than evolving. Maybe season 7 will be a break from all of this if gimple has satisfied his comic lust. I don't trust Gimple and I expect Carol to be moping (not the right word, but it's all I got right now) the Kingdom too. I doubt she'll find any kind of happiness or peace there because Gimple thinks the way to an Emmy nomination is an unhappy Carol. Damn, I'm bitter! Well, it's not like your suspicion isn't warranted. There's nothing to suggest an improvement is on the way. But Carol has been loved by fans and critics - if she goes down a path of pensive moping that will change and gimples approach will be in trouble. For all I know gimple is giving the character the Andrea treatment with plans to get rid of her. That's how little faith I have in his storytelling. But my one hope is that now that he's got her associated wth the kingdom he'll give her some time to heal. Why do I believe this? I'm a sucker, that's why
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Mar 24, 2016 21:25:48 GMT -5
Meggo358 And he's ruined Morgan, at least for me. I see him, no just think of him, and I roll my eyes. This is my right now.
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Post by nana on Mar 24, 2016 22:32:34 GMT -5
I absolutely hate her arc. My main problems with it: 1. It's plot driven and not character driven. The OCCness of Carol is a crime. 2. Certain parts of her story should have had resolution at least one season ago. We should not still be waiting for her to talk about the girls. We should not still be talking about her banishment. 3. She should not be linked to a random redshirt. Period. Who the fuck is Tobin and why the hell is he being given this much attention? No answer will satisfy me. 4. Her isolation from TF seems forced and is more proof that Gimple is oblivious why relationships developed over seasons need to be maintained. I'm not happy, if you can't tell. Nope, not happy at all. The Tobin thing is so incredibly out of character that I can't even think about it. The fact it is done and can't be undone just pisses me off. And I have to watch more of it this week. I know they went to great pains to paint this guy the complete opposite of Daryl, and that has a message in itself...but it is just not Carol, no matter how hurt she is. I am not convinced we ever will hear her talk about the girls...not anymore. I think that story is so intertwined with all the other stories tied to her grief that she can't extricate it. Also, I think Gimple just may drop the ball on that and we won't get any discussion about her grief... he just wants it implied and she will have to do what she has to do to get over it. If she talks to anyone about it, at this point, I think it will be with Morgan...which I hate because I think if Daryl were to know everything she has been through it could help to pull him out of himself...but then his character would develop. I have a very hard time believing that at some point Carol couldn't or wouldn't have brought herself to talk to someone about what has happened. Her promise to Ty is non-binding at this point...and I don't think he ever really had the right to ask that of her. If she gets to the Kingdom with Morgan I expect the two of them will find a healing force there. But the story has been so convoluted, dragged out, and unrealistic that I have little faith.
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