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Post by dark sister on Aug 13, 2017 22:55:08 GMT -5
my absolute new favorite quote coming from Davos with " Nothing fucks you harder than time!" Ain't that the damn truth!? Speaking of fucking, is this show going to acknowledge Davos' wife again?
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Post by murph on Aug 13, 2017 22:59:11 GMT -5
My partner said they thought they had maybe aged him a bit, which I thought was an interesting comment, and if true...well, yeah. It was hard to tell. I was trying to remember what Joe Dempsie looked like when he would have started filming again. I don't remember. Point is, I was wondering if the short hair was their choice or not. I'm tellin' ya, Sansa and Gendry is going to be the betrothal that saves the North at this rate. Dude, no it isn't. That makes zero sense. I actually wonder if him not mentioning her is setting them up for a romance though. I know Joe Dempsie spoke against it back in S3 when Maisie was a minor, but she's not now so I imagine D&D won't take his feelings into account. I think they very well could have a mini romance next season. Obviously there will be too much fighting to have time for it, but I think he'll do something like melt LF's dagger down and cover Needle with it, and we'll maybe see feelings there? I don't know, but them ignoring it makes me think they might go in that direction. Think about it. What else could go so horribly wrong at this point but that? They bring him back, for no real reason that they need to - I'm pretty convinced this is not book Gendry plot. So they bring him back and they put him in a Team with Jon. One of the first things he says to him is about his sword (as is one of the first things he says to Arya, about the sword Jon gave her) And the set up before their meeting has Davos putting him making swords in Winterfell for Jon (making swords for Arya’s brother like she wanted), and has Davos say not to tell Jon who he is, so suggesting maybe that’s why Jon won’t know…but nope, out with it straight away. He’s Gendry and they should be homies because their dads were…not a fuckin’ word about the fact that he was family with Jon’s most beloved sibling. And then we’ll add the Hound because why not add the other person Arya’s journeyed with…wait, better yet, add The Brotherhood too. And still nobody mentions her. The last time they saw each other was with Arya. Jaqen appearance Hot Pie gets two appearances, mentions Jon and Sansa (in his first one with Brienne) but doesn’t mention Gendry. Gendry mentions Mel, and in the presence of Jon who just happens to be the other person who has some fucked up non-book sexual encounter with her – Mel, who is on Arya’s list. And let’s look at D&D’s habit of taking things from Arya and giving them to Sansa. Ramsay’s Stark wife plot. Jon plot. Brienne plot (I actually don’t mind that plot but by book, she is an Arya and Gendry character. She mistakes Willow for Arya who is then instantly paired up as marrying Gendry by the people in the Inn) She even got Lyanna and Harrenhal talk…I mean what the fuck was that? That was actually the last straw for me in that shit. And think how perfect it will be. Sansa, with the true Baratheon Prince, the Bastard, because she knows better now than to judge, coming such a lovely full circle. It’s oh so perfect As an Arya fan, I feel fucked with. And I don't trust D&D for shit. Reality is, they've clearly deliberately not mentioned it. It's either because they are trying to set it up for the big moment later. Evidence for that theory would be how Jon and Arya reunion has been built up so far. Or they don't want to mention it because it will get in the way of their main plot that they actually care about. Evidence maybe for that side is the rewrite of Gendry at Kings Landing just wanting for the day to be Robert Baratheon's son. Or they're stupid enough that they forgot, which, there's just no way.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 13, 2017 23:01:56 GMT -5
murph they don't even mention the Arya/Gendry connection in the Inside the Episode. They only talk about what he meant to Davos.
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Post by murph on Aug 13, 2017 23:05:37 GMT -5
murph they don't even mention the Arya/Gendry connection in the Inside the Episode. They only talk about what he meant to Davos. So another one for the 'want to ignore it cuz it gets in the way of the plot they want now' column. Wait, "he wants to be honest"? That's how they characterise Gendry in that moment with Jon? Wants to be honest...but doesn't say a word about his history with his sister... Fuckin' D&D.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 13, 2017 23:14:33 GMT -5
What are they doing?
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Post by murph on Aug 13, 2017 23:30:41 GMT -5
What are they doing? Tumblr's having a bit of a tantrum too. Sorry, but at a minimum, it's just bad writing. Those characters wouldn't not say anything. I need WoW and I need it now.
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Post by murph on Aug 14, 2017 1:39:49 GMT -5
The other thing about this episode is that for me it's brought up my complete judgement on how D&D write their female characters and on which they seem to value their worth as interesting characters. Every single main female character right now (Arya, Sansa, Dany and Cersei) are all the ones going off the rails either by wanting to kill or scheme or both...and it's the men in their lives that are the good ones who will calm them down, talk some sense into them and try and basically refrain them in some way.
Alone, I don't mind the Sansa v Arya stuff because I think they are very different and they've never gotten along and so it makes sense that wouldn't suddenly be fixed and their attitudes would clash, but relatively - when it's ALL each character has going on right now, when it's a repetitive attitude within the female characters and when it's in stark contrast to Jon and Gendry who are apparently friends for life immediately after meeting and on the basis of their fathers, not the female that's been important to both of them... I think it shows an obvious problem - one that is clearly a choice.
In those last scenes at Eastwatch it was so friggin' obvious they had basically removed a female character from every single of those male character storylines and history because the simple acknowledgement of her and mention would have gotten in the way.
I really don't like that.
In comparison, Jorah's one degree connection has been mentioned three fucking times, twice in this episode.
I mean fuck sake, Arya has trained at The House of Black and White but Littlefinger gets one over on her? And in a way that we've already seen he could not with Bran. Come on.
I feel like a lot of similar criticism of Season 5 is gonna make a comeback.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 14, 2017 2:42:04 GMT -5
I have it a 6 mostly because of plotholes I could have flown a 747 through with room to spare. * I liked many things- the Sansa-Arya conversation in which Arya called out Lady Stark for failing to support Jon and in fact undermining his power and position as King of The North. * I liked Jon reminding Dany that as King of The North, he does not need her permission to go anywhere. * I loved Gilly finding the document annulling Raegar's marriage and the subsequent secret marriage to Lyanna Stark I am sure which will make Jon a true-born Targaeryan after all. She mentioned it as an aside which started off Samwell's realization that he was done with the Maester system and its priorities and limitations. * I loved Jon approaching and touching Drogon- his awe and the terrific CGI made it feel real as Drogon made a sighing noise and allowed Jon to touch him. * lots of Davos , always a great thing. * the Jaime -Tyrion reunion after so long. * I wasn't happy with the Arya-Littlefinger- she could have used her training to impersonate someone else when going into the room. I feel doubtful Littlefinger would have caught her so it felt false and brought me out of the story. * Gendry- Agree they retconned the character and the omission of Arya between so many key people in her life was ridiculous and also brought me out of the story. * I agree that the women are all shown as making mistakes, having emotions rule intellect, poor choices or as murph described it off the rails and out of control. The men are the gatekeepers who keep their cool right now and are reasonable, so it is a striking contrast in the episode which felt unrealistic. I felt the writing stumbled a lot in this episode, it felt a bit like TWD when Gimple shoehorns in plot points setting up for a future payoff, but clumsily. * The Cersei-Jaime pregnancy feels unnecessary and raises all the same issues as with the three original children so felt stale to me. Since the other episodes have been a bit smoother or more pleasing to viewers, this one was clumsy throughout. ew.com/tv/2017/08/14/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-targaryen/amp/
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Post by dark sister on Aug 14, 2017 11:44:47 GMT -5
* I wasn't happy with the Arya-Littlefinger- she could have used her training to impersonate someone else when going into the room. I feel doubtful Littlefinger would have caught her so it felt false and brought me out of the story. * The Cersei-Jaime pregnancy feels unnecessary and raises all the same issues as with the three original children so felt stale to me. To be fair with Arya not taking someone else's face, that means she would have to kill that person and she probably doesn't want to murder people loyal to her family. I'm actually okay for the most part with LF getting one over on Arya because I think the show teeters sometimes on making Arya invincible. (Her nap and stitches curing a stomach wound for example) Arya while she trained with the Faceless Men is still a kid and LF has been scheming longer than her. Cersei's pregnancy isn't selling me either. I get that to Cersei, it's a huge fuck you to Maggie's prophecy but it's more manipulation for Jaime which I don't care for.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 14, 2017 11:53:32 GMT -5
Great point about her not wanting to murder at Winterfell dark sister!
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Post by dark sister on Aug 14, 2017 11:55:51 GMT -5
Also in all my bitching I forgot, D&D didn't actually write this episode.
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Post by murph on Aug 14, 2017 15:09:26 GMT -5
One thing about the change of Gendry is it's maybe not entirely out of nowhere. I mean, the total obvious reset of 'let's make sure the audience know that what really happened was Davos told Gendry to go to Kings Landing and wait for him and Gendry is just so grateful to Davos for saving his life that that's all he's been thinking' was pretty ridiculous. They had never planned that when Gendry left and the switch is pretty obvious.
However, in terms of just his attitude change period - particularly his anger and ready to kill people with his hammer, that's pretty book Gendry. He is very different when he's seen again since separating from Arya. He's angry. And it's made extremely obvious and is deliberately done so. You have direct comparisons between Arya and Brienne watching him working in the forge and Arya talks about the hammer being a part of his arm and the sounds being like music, whereas Brienne talks about him beating the sword like he wishes it was a foe. Arya talks about his blue eyes being stubborn (someone else does too, before Arya...I think it might be Ned, actually? I can't think who else it could) whereas Brienne talks about his eyes being angry and suspicious. And she notes that he's glaring at everyone, isolating himself and he's clearly angry as fuck at The Hound when he wasn't before.
Book Gendry does change just as much the next time we see him, but it's mostly about Arya. He's surrounded himself with orphans, one of which is bossy and stompy and Brienne thinks might be Arya, and he's seriously vengeful over The Hound whereas he doesn't feel that way beforehand. And he doesn't seem to smile anymore. Like Jon, Arya's the one that makes him smile.
This 'all about being a Baratheon' thing I have a problem with because it's never been Gendry. If anything, he should be all about the fact that he's a bastard. He's the opposite of Robert in some ways and that's supposed to be the point - he looks like him, has the fury, his natural affinity for hammer and liking for a Stark and his stubbornness, but he doesn't have any of Robert's bad habits.
I don't know if this is the show trying to do or at least acknowledging book Gendry. I'm extremely doubtful of it because I don't think they care about book Gendry, but I'm trying to be objective in my resentment lol.
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Post by Starlight on Aug 15, 2017 9:23:48 GMT -5
Giving this episode 6. Pro's Loved the reunion between Daenarys and Jorah. Davos always gets a plus from me. It was nice to to Gendrys back. The 7 going to looking for a white walker looks to be setting up for some good moments in the next episode. Cons Cersei pregnant. I love Cersei and Jaime as individual characters but together nope. Too much of daenarys and Mr confused scenes. I wanted drogan to open his mouth and bite Mr confused in half during that scene. I was on Sansa side when her and Arya were bickering. I liked Arya alot better when she was younger, now I found her annoying.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 15, 2017 9:46:04 GMT -5
murph Joe Dempsie interview, at least he gets asked about Arya. www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137 With Gendry back on the show, hopefully it's just a matter of time before he reunites with Arya. Is there any hope for such a reunion?
I would love it. Just purely because I love hanging out with and working with Maisie. I said years ago when we were shooting the show is that she's one of the best actors I've worked with. She's a phenomenal talent. It's been a joy to watch not only Maisie but all the youngsters on the show grow up with the show. Every year you come back and there's something a little bit different about them. They are very formative years, and it's been a joy to watch them grow into such lovely young adults. I would love to see Gendry and Arya meet again. They seemed to get on. It was a nice banter between the two of them. It would be great to revisit that. How have you viewed Arya and Gendry's relationship? Friends, or even almost like siblings? There are some fans out there who want to see them end up together...
Yeah, I think it's implied in the books that there might be a romantic element to the relationship, and in the books I think the characters are significantly closer in age. I know from my personal experience, when we were filming the earlier seasons and people would ask about that and talk about that, I would feel slightly uncomfortable. I'm acting alongside a child here. I was a 25-year-old man. I sometimes found that question a little hard to address and a little tricky to answer. As a result of the difference in age, I think one of the roles Gendry played in Arya's story was as him being an older guy who sort of awakens certain feelings in Arya for the first time as she's becoming a young woman. There's that scene in season two where I'm forging a sword — fairly inexplicably without a shirt on — and I think the idea was to convey the idea of Arya experiencing feelings she's never felt before. Everyone's had that at some point. Whether that means Gendry has a place in Arya's heart or vice versa, I have no idea. I think there's almost a sibling element, too. At that point in the story, Gendry really reminded her of her brothers and of home. That was the comfort with him. But it could go a number of ways. It would just be nice if they met again, wouldn't it? It's a pairing you wouldn't want to mess with.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 15, 2017 14:07:58 GMT -5
Are Cersei and Daenerys the Mad Queens?
"You can’t spell Daenerys without Aerys. You can’t spell Daenerys without Aerys. HBO
As Tyrion kept repeating on last night’s “Eastwatch”—trying to convince those around him or himself or both— “Daenerys is not her father.”
While Tyrion’s assertion is technically true (Daenerys is not Aerys, despite sharing the better part of a name), many who have seen her recent actions, her Hand included, are having a hard time swallowing it. The new queen seems to be acting more and more like her late father as she tries to ruthlessly cement her rule.
Advertisement Optics, Dany, optics. The Mad King, a tyrant known for his cruelty, paranoia, and pyromania, is the last person with whom an aspiring monarch should want to be compared. Though initially a benevolent ruler, the inbred Targaryen descended into madness as his rule went on, culminating in the sadistic public execution of Rickard and Brandon Stark, Ned’s father and brother. Daenerys has been eager to separate herself from her dad, telling Jon Snow, “My father was an evil man ... and I ask you not to judge a daughter by the sins of her father.” Soon there will be no need: Queen Daenerys looks to be committing a number of her own.
Following last week’s epic battle, Dany offers the Lannister soldiers who didn’t get burned alive a choice: “Bend the knee ... or refuse and die.” She expects blind loyalty from her citizens and is not keen to show mercy to the dissenters. But is she being nasty? You must be thinking of the other queen. “That’s Cersei Lannister, not me,” she tells them, before burning the Tarlys alive (RIP Dickon).
So are Westeros’ current queens really any improvement on its last few kings? The Iron Throne has seen its fair share of terrible occupants—Aerys (crazy), Robert (lazy), and Joffrey (crazy)—and everyone keeps warning Daenerys not to follow their lead. In the selectively pointed highlights from last episode, Jon tells Dany that if she just burns everyone, she’ll be “no different, just more of the same.” Does he mean the same as the Lannisters, or the same as her (their) mad ancestor? Or, perhaps, the same as the men who butchered the role before her?
Neither gender is immune to going mad with power, it seems. Tyrion is, understandably, a little freaked out about the potential Mad Queen on his hands. He’s having trouble advising her, as his own father had with Aerys and as his brother has had with Cersei (the Lannister men are not very good at influencing mad monarchs). In a heart-to-heart with Varys, the two altruistic men discuss their responsibility for the dark path their queen is on. "I am her Hand, not her head," Tyrion says.
Advertisement “That’s what I used to tell myself about her father,” says Varys, sadly. “I found the traitors but I wasn’t the one burning them alive.”
The wise men are wise to be concerned. Daenerys, too, is the product of incest (her mother was Aerys’ sister), and as seven seasons have shown, this tends to result in some crazy, power-hungry kids, such as her brother Viserys and that other Mad King, Joffrey. She’s been through enough pain to make anyone crazy. And since landing in Westeros, the Breaker of Chains has burned prisoners alive, threatened her closest advisors out of paranoia, and killed honorable father-son duos, checking all the Aerys boxes.
Down in King’s Landing, another ruthless ruler haunted by her father sits upon the Mad King’s melted sword chair. Daenerys has a strong contender in Cersei, if not for the Iron Throne, then for the title of the Mad Queen. The list of mad things Cersei has done is getting too long to mention, but blowing up the Great Sept and everyone inside it is up there.
Loyalties and Bloodlines Get Tested on Game of Thrones
Slate's Game of Thrones podcast recaps "Eastwatch." Returning from battle, Jaime is rightfully terrified of telling his terrifying sister about the terrifying woman they face. He’s not into fighting losing battles and thinks they should surrender. But Mad Queen I is long past caring if she lives or dies—she wants to go out fighting. The Kingslayer who took out the manic monarch he was sworn to serve realizes he might be serving another. No stranger to taking out tyrants, could he be the “valonqar” Cersei so fears?
Cersei’s nihilistic madness appears to abate with the revelation that she is with child … or does it? Maggy the Frog’s prophecy promised her only three children. If the prophecy is to be believed, she’s either faking her pregnancy or pregnant but going to lose the baby, at which point she could finally—understandably—go over the deep end.
With the practical Lannister brothers trying to reason with them, the Mad Queens show that women are not immune to becoming tyrants. Just as women are capable of shattering glass ceilings to become CEOs/politicians that are as heartless/greedy as their male counterparts, we women are just as capable of becoming despotic, pyromaniacal monarchs.
At least in the case of these queens, they seem to have rationales beyond the Mad King’s psychotic sadism. Though Tyrion can’t see it, Dany isn’t killing indiscriminately. She’s giving people choices (not that “kneel or die” is a great one) and following through on her word. Cersei, meanwhile, is playing one of her long games on Jaime: letting the Tyrion meeting happen, hinting at being open to an armistice, and manipulating her poor twin with the possibility of an heir.
Are these women just crazy, or are they crazy like a fox?"
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Post by murph on Aug 15, 2017 18:53:40 GMT -5
murph Joe Dempsie interview, at least he gets asked about Arya. www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137 With Gendry back on the show, hopefully it's just a matter of time before he reunites with Arya. Is there any hope for such a reunion?
I would love it. Just purely because I love hanging out with and working with Maisie. I said years ago when we were shooting the show is that she's one of the best actors I've worked with. She's a phenomenal talent. It's been a joy to watch not only Maisie but all the youngsters on the show grow up with the show. Every year you come back and there's something a little bit different about them. They are very formative years, and it's been a joy to watch them grow into such lovely young adults. I would love to see Gendry and Arya meet again. They seemed to get on. It was a nice banter between the two of them. It would be great to revisit that. How have you viewed Arya and Gendry's relationship? Friends, or even almost like siblings? There are some fans out there who want to see them end up together...
Yeah, I think it's implied in the books that there might be a romantic element to the relationship, and in the books I think the characters are significantly closer in age. I know from my personal experience, when we were filming the earlier seasons and people would ask about that and talk about that, I would feel slightly uncomfortable. I'm acting alongside a child here. I was a 25-year-old man. I sometimes found that question a little hard to address and a little tricky to answer. As a result of the difference in age, I think one of the roles Gendry played in Arya's story was as him being an older guy who sort of awakens certain feelings in Arya for the first time as she's becoming a young woman. There's that scene in season two where I'm forging a sword — fairly inexplicably without a shirt on — and I think the idea was to convey the idea of Arya experiencing feelings she's never felt before. Everyone's had that at some point. Whether that means Gendry has a place in Arya's heart or vice versa, I have no idea. I think there's almost a sibling element, too. At that point in the story, Gendry really reminded her of her brothers and of home. That was the comfort with him. But it could go a number of ways. It would just be nice if they met again, wouldn't it? It's a pairing you wouldn't want to mess with. I appreciate how he answered this. Both sides, you know? Cuz I totally get why he was uncomfortable, but he's pretty acknowledging of the book relationship and of one of the few Arya and Gendry book moments that was on in the show - where Arya is basically checking him out.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 16, 2017 9:25:50 GMT -5
murph Joe Dempsie interview, at least he gets asked about Arya. www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137 With Gendry back on the show, hopefully it's just a matter of time before he reunites with Arya. Is there any hope for such a reunion?
I would love it. Just purely because I love hanging out with and working with Maisie. I said years ago when we were shooting the show is that she's one of the best actors I've worked with. She's a phenomenal talent. It's been a joy to watch not only Maisie but all the youngsters on the show grow up with the show. Every year you come back and there's something a little bit different about them. They are very formative years, and it's been a joy to watch them grow into such lovely young adults. I would love to see Gendry and Arya meet again. They seemed to get on. It was a nice banter between the two of them. It would be great to revisit that. How have you viewed Arya and Gendry's relationship? Friends, or even almost like siblings? There are some fans out there who want to see them end up together...
Yeah, I think it's implied in the books that there might be a romantic element to the relationship, and in the books I think the characters are significantly closer in age. I know from my personal experience, when we were filming the earlier seasons and people would ask about that and talk about that, I would feel slightly uncomfortable. I'm acting alongside a child here. I was a 25-year-old man. I sometimes found that question a little hard to address and a little tricky to answer. As a result of the difference in age, I think one of the roles Gendry played in Arya's story was as him being an older guy who sort of awakens certain feelings in Arya for the first time as she's becoming a young woman. There's that scene in season two where I'm forging a sword — fairly inexplicably without a shirt on — and I think the idea was to convey the idea of Arya experiencing feelings she's never felt before. Everyone's had that at some point. Whether that means Gendry has a place in Arya's heart or vice versa, I have no idea. I think there's almost a sibling element, too. At that point in the story, Gendry really reminded her of her brothers and of home. That was the comfort with him. But it could go a number of ways. It would just be nice if they met again, wouldn't it? It's a pairing you wouldn't want to mess with. I appreciate how he answered this. Both sides, you know? Cuz I totally get why he was uncomfortable, but he's pretty acknowledging of the book relationship and of one of the few Arya and Gendry book moments that was on in the show - where Arya is basically checking him out. I like that he has a sense of humor over the fact that he was used for gratuitous eye candy.
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