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Post by murph on Aug 7, 2017 20:11:57 GMT -5
dark sister I'm sorry about the Meera and Bran plotline. I know that's a real bummer for you. I'm still just so skeptical about her not coming back. How can the Reeds not be part of the war?
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Post by zinc on Aug 7, 2017 21:35:18 GMT -5
zinc , I actually liked the Stark reunions this episode because they actually felt right to me. And I liked that it was more subtle and in-keeping with Arya just sitting there and basically breathing home again and the three of them just walking quietly through the courtyard. Arya and Sansa have never been friendly; they've never had that relationship and they had changed, so for me I really enjoyed their casualness about it, their affirming that they're alive and that that childish conflict was gone because they've grown up and gone through what they have, but are also not pretending they're something they've never been. That's potentially the first time they've ever hugged and I actually appreciated that they did. And with Bran, it's obviously supposed to have that disconnection but I really liked that Arya was the one in the middle, that she's the one who gets Bran in this state more than Sansa does, but that both Sansa and Arya are actually bonding over their opinion about Bran. I like that it's complicated. The Sansa and Jon reunion was way too much for me. They have the least meaningful relationship out of every Stark sibling combination. So for me...it was just too much. But the show pushes Sansa to be more than she was ever intended to be in book form. I take that Jon and Sansa reunion to be more about the representation of Stark family, than actually about Jon and Sansa. They were the first of their family that they had seen in so long when they thought everyone else was dead (and Arya and Sansa continuing that theme in the crypt) and Sansa was scared in a way she's not now she's in Winterfell and now feels she has more control, so it should be different, I think. It shouldn't be as vulnerable, from any of those three. Briefly on the opinion that this is the best season - I think it finally all coming together, the reunions and the groups meeting makes up for a lot of anything else that it lacking. And I think it makes the overall impression. I think it's a lot of easy feel-good going on that has people forgiving things like poorer dialogue. The Sansa and Jon reunion was actually great because of how little of a meaningful relationship they had before. It was especially important for Sansa given all the things she valued, the Southern code and how she viewed the world through the Southern lens and Jon was none of that, a bastard who occupied a space that the social code condemned. Like the way she embraced him highlighted to me just how much different she was now. And there was relief for a lot of viewers who long awaited a Stark reunion. Whereas this was just the meeting of three strangers almost. Even though they never had a close relationship before, this was just an awkward "sup, buddy?" reunion like they didn't witness their father beheaded or know details of the deaths of their mother and older brother. It just meant nothing and didn't leave me caring about the Stark children anymore.
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Post by murph on Aug 7, 2017 23:11:51 GMT -5
zinc , I actually liked the Stark reunions this episode because they actually felt right to me. And I liked that it was more subtle and in-keeping with Arya just sitting there and basically breathing home again and the three of them just walking quietly through the courtyard. Arya and Sansa have never been friendly; they've never had that relationship and they had changed, so for me I really enjoyed their casualness about it, their affirming that they're alive and that that childish conflict was gone because they've grown up and gone through what they have, but are also not pretending they're something they've never been. That's potentially the first time they've ever hugged and I actually appreciated that they did. And with Bran, it's obviously supposed to have that disconnection but I really liked that Arya was the one in the middle, that she's the one who gets Bran in this state more than Sansa does, but that both Sansa and Arya are actually bonding over their opinion about Bran. I like that it's complicated. The Sansa and Jon reunion was way too much for me. They have the least meaningful relationship out of every Stark sibling combination. So for me...it was just too much. But the show pushes Sansa to be more than she was ever intended to be in book form. I take that Jon and Sansa reunion to be more about the representation of Stark family, than actually about Jon and Sansa. They were the first of their family that they had seen in so long when they thought everyone else was dead (and Arya and Sansa continuing that theme in the crypt) and Sansa was scared in a way she's not now she's in Winterfell and now feels she has more control, so it should be different, I think. It shouldn't be as vulnerable, from any of those three. Briefly on the opinion that this is the best season - I think it finally all coming together, the reunions and the groups meeting makes up for a lot of anything else that it lacking. And I think it makes the overall impression. I think it's a lot of easy feel-good going on that has people forgiving things like poorer dialogue. The Sansa and Jon reunion was actually great because of how little of a meaningful relationship they had before. It was especially important for Sansa given all the things she valued, the Southern code and how she viewed the world through the Southern lens and Jon was none of that, a bastard who occupied a space that the social code condemned. Like the way she embraced him highlighted to me just how much different she was now. And there was relief for a lot of viewers who long awaited a Stark reunion. Whereas this was just the meeting of three strangers almost. Even though they never had a close relationship before, this was just an awkward "sup, buddy?" reunion like they didn't witness their father beheaded or know details of the deaths of their mother and older brother. It just meant nothing and didn't leave me caring about the Stark children anymore. I agree with you on what the Jon one meant for Sansa. But I could not disagree with you more about the trio one lol. Like I said, the Sansa and Jon one was two vulnerable people in that moment. The trio wasn't, and shouldn't have been. Arya's still a little removed and focused on her mission and importantly for her, Jon wasn't there, Bran is obviously out of it and can't connect as he used to, and Sansa is way more controlled - and liking it - than she was before. There isn't the same vulnerability in any of them as there was a lost and ruined Sansa at the Wall. It was pretty perfect for me. I think anything much more emotional would have been for the sake of it and I care about the Starks too much for that. I like that their stories are clearly still evolving and that things aren't all fixed now they're together again and that that was shown last episode. It's sad to see you say it meant nothing for you because I just think there was soooo much in those moments actually and I really recognised each character in their reactions.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 8, 2017 8:31:35 GMT -5
dark sister I'm sorry about the Meera and Bran plotline. I know that's a real bummer for you. I'm still just so skeptical about her not coming back. How can the Reeds not be part of the war? I really hope we see them again in S8. It would be strange to me if Howland and Jon never meet, and I always pictured Meera at Bran's side in the end, no matter what.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 8, 2017 15:34:38 GMT -5
Throwing this here since there is no articles topic-Variety interview with episode director about the loot train battle. "...How long did the Loot Train Battle take to shoot? The battle, I think, was 18 main-unit days, roughly around five second-unit days, and then several weeks of the effects-unit shooting back in Belfast, which is where we did Daenerys flying on her dragon and shots of flamethrowers and people turning to ash and all that stuff that got added into it. We’re used to seeing big battle scenes in the show. What did you want to do to distinguish this one? I started by trying to focus on whose point of view I wanted to prioritize, because there are a lot of points of view in it. You see Tyrion’s point of view, you see Daenerys, you see Jaime, Bronn. And I also decided with Jaime and Bronn to focus on what it was like to be the man on the ground in the middle of a dragon attack. We rooted for Daenerys as she burned slavers in Meereen from the sky. We’ve been with her in sort of heroic moments with the dragons. But we’ve never been in a battle between two people that we love and are rooting for, and I wanted to see what it was like for those men on the ground when war changed forever, when traditional fighting goes out the window because of a giant weapon like napalm or even an atom bomb is suddenly introduced and what that sort of horror is like on the ground. It seemed like you were looking to play with the way that viewers have perceived the dragons so far, which is essentially that they are just really cool. Right. The horror on the ground is much larger than it has been, I think – the damage and the destruction from the last time we saw a dragon attack in Season 6. Now Drogon is the size of a 747 and the cone of flame that he sends out is 30-feet wide. So we discussed early on that the center of that flame would be so hot that it would carbonize almost instantly. So we looked a lot at Pompei as reference, which led to the idea of people just turning to ash in an instant. The people on the edge of the fire are cooking in their armor and rushing to the water to try to save themselves. But the people in the middle, their humanity is just gone in an instant..." link
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Post by Starlight on Aug 9, 2017 12:12:32 GMT -5
Giving this episode 9. This episode was amazing I would have given it a 10 if it wasn't for the crap between Mr confused and Daenarys. Bronn is everything. The reunion between Sansa and Arya was nice. But i wish someone would just stick bran with a sword. I liked the fight scene between Brienne and Arya it showed their very different fighting styles. And the battle was amazing, I felt so sorry for Jaime and was routing for him to kill Deanarys when he charged towards her.
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Post by dark sister on Aug 9, 2017 12:20:12 GMT -5
Starlight I'm glad you mentioned feeling sorry for Jaime because I did too. Especially when you think of Jaime having to kill Aerys because he wanted to "burn them all" Now he had to witness his daughter doing just that.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 9, 2017 14:00:05 GMT -5
EW Celebrity cameo in the episode, which I missed - playing a Lannister soldier "...Syndergaard, who partially tore his lat muscle during an April start, had teased his Game of Thrones cameo earlier this year. “It’s a dream come true. I think it’s the greatest TV show of all time, so just to be able to say I was in Game of Thrones is an unbelievable feeling,” Syndergaard toldSports Illustrated in April. The right-hander, whose nickname is Thor because of his resemblance to the Marvel superhero of the same name, shot his cameo appearance in one day on the Thrones‘ Spain set..." link
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Post by dark sister on Aug 9, 2017 19:38:41 GMT -5
That's how celebrity cameos should be done. Not in your face like Ed Sheeran.
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Post by merelei on Aug 9, 2017 19:42:08 GMT -5
He's a celebrity? XDD Sorry I don't follow sports. I kid I kid!
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Post by Ripley on Aug 10, 2017 11:35:11 GMT -5
A great SLate piece about how Dany could have ended the war right there- had she done things a bit differently- I tend to agree with this although I know some was done for drama and to show how young she is and prone to errors while learning. "Game of Thrones’ “The Spoils of War” ended with Daenerys Targaryen setting fire to a good chunk of the Lannister army and Jaime nearly going out in a blaze of glory. But notwithstanding that dragon-and-Dothraki-fueled rout, the Lannister barbecue we’ve been waiting for since Season 1 could've ended with a much more decisive victory for Team Dany. Before this week's roast of the Lannisters, last week's “The Queen’s Justice” found Daenerys stuck between a rock and an Iron Fleet. In a battle that was almost over before it started, Jaime, having turned House Tyrell’s bannermen against them, took the Tyrell stronghold of Highgarden and with it the biggest war chest in Westeros. Meanwhile, Dany’s Unsullied army was stuck on the other side of the continent, watching their ships burn from the ramparts of the strategically worthless Casterly Rock. Neither of these victories, however, was as devastating as it seemed. Highgarden was a blow, to be sure. House Tyrell, the rulers of The Reach, was the richest family in Westeros. Most of the references to their army comes from parts of the War of the Five Kings that the series covered in the first two seasons. Nevertheless, The Reach is presented as having the largest standing army around, with some 60,000–80,000 troops loyal to House Tyrell, according to estimates gleaned from George R.R. Martin’s novels. But with only 20,000 soldiers of their own, the Tyrells were particularly dependent on their bannermen. And with that being the case, Tyrion—who knew that his family’s vaults must be nearing empty—should’ve predicted that Cersei might try enticing the Tyrells’ allies, particularly the xenophobic Randyll Tarly, into switching sides. But while Jamie’s victory did net the Lannisters a few tons of gold, but they made one dear mistake: They took the wrong road. Game of Thrones has been playing fast and loose with travel times—you’d have to be a merman to get from one place to another so quickly—but according to the official map, the most direct route from King's Landing to Highgarden is along Rose Road, a 760-mile march. Instead, the Lannister force detoured more than 500 miles northeast, presumably to throw off Daenerys and avoid an ambush at Kingswood. Even assuming a speedy marching pace of 20 miles a day through a comparatively mountainous route, with no days off to rest, it’d take at least 23 days to get to the Blackwater Rush, where Sunday’s battle took place—and at that point, the Lannister army would still be at least 200 miles away from King’s Landing. Dany could’ve used the time the Lannister army burned taking the scenic route much more to her advantage. Although it’s at least 1,000 miles from Dragonstone to Casterly Rock, the moment she heard that her forces were stranded at Casterly Rock, Dany should have sent a raven telling her Unsullied—who, even assuming an outrageous 25 percent casualty rate, should still have been nearly 6,000 strong—to march towards the former Tully stronghold at Riverrun. A one- to three-man team would have been enough to keep tabs on the Iron Fleet, which by then would have been heading southward to King’s Landing.
She also could’ve ordered 10,000–15,000 Dothraki—estimates put the total force between 80,000 and 100,000, so she’s got plenty to spare—and Second Sons mercenaries to sail for the river that leads to Riverrun. To ensure their approach went unnoticed, Varys could have tapped his sprawling contacts to secure fast, inconspicuous merchant ships.
Judging by how fast her largest dragon, Drogon, flies in comparison to galloping horses, he’s easily capable of flying in excess of 75 miles per hour. Even at 60 mph, flying for four hours a day, she could moved ahead of her deployed forces and fly for the mountains near Casterly Rock, reaching them in four to five days.
Taking the precaution that the Iron Fleet might have anti-dragon weapons—ballista exist elsewhere in GoT, so it made zero sense that anyone was surprised when the Lannisters unveiled one—Dany could’ve waited for overcast skies or nightfall to descend on Euron’s conspicuously massive command ship, the most likely to be armed with them. If Yara were onboard, well, she’d be missed. If not, then after Euron was dead, the next in line to lead the Ironborn would be Dany’s ally.
From there, Dany would rendezvous with the Dothraki. But instead of riding Drogon head-on into the fray and torching the Lannister supply train—which included grain (which she needs), weapons, and, at least as far as she knew, large amounts of gold—she could’ve flanked around the side. The mountains would’ve hidden her approach, and, coming in at an angle, she could’ve taken out the entire front shield wall, capturing the supplies and the other soldiers.
From there, the Dothraki army would ride north, and Dany could ride ahead to meet the Unsullied, and the force she sent up river, to lay siege to Riverrun. At their peak, the Freys, who most recently held Riverrun, could muster 4,000 troops. Even assuming that the cutthroats aren’t fighting amid the power vacuum Arya left, they’re no match for Dany’s combined forces. Dany and Drogon could melt a convenient entrance for the Dothraki and Unsullied, and by time the rest of the surrounding lords—who altogether have managed to produce between 11,000 and 16,000 troops (minus the Freys) in various wars—had a chance to respond, Riverrun would be hers.
Securing Riverrun would have Dany a route to ferry her soldiers back to Dragonstone. And with Tyrion’s charm, the series of victories could have helped convince the Iron Bank to invest in her, cutting off Cersei’s main source of funds—and potentially won over the remaining Ironborn and River Lords. She’d have a supply route stretching from Casterly Rock—should she want to hold it, she has the men—to Riverrun, and from there to Dragonstone. With Varys’ little birds and a small army of sellswords serving as spies, she could track Cersei’s army, crippling their supply lines with strafing, hit-and-run dragonfire attacks as it marches. If the Ironborn try to sail to the other side of Westeros and attack Dany at Dragonstone, she’d have enough troops to defend it from landing attacks and dragons to punch holes in any blockade.
Instead, Dany she burned some wagons and walked away with a single victory—admittedly a gruesome and badass one—over the ass-end of a Lannister supply train. Your move, Cersei"
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