Meggo358
Retired Moderator
Aspiring Furiosa
Posts: 1,749
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Post by Meggo358 on Jun 29, 2017 10:05:44 GMT -5
I was just commenting in another thread about the idea of Negan being fixed as a character and whether I felt my personal opinion of him could change (not whether I think he could be a good guy or anything, but a better villian than the one presented), and it got me wondering about other characters who have been fixed or improved, and which ones started out great and got worse. So, which characters have evolved in a way that won you over? Which characters did you used to love but later cooled on and why? Seven seasons in I feel like there is lot to choose from. Improved: Morgan - I still cant disconnect him from carol's guilt storyline but the show made him more likable, less of an ass, last season. They showed him judging less and struggling more. I felt more connected to him. Father Gabriel - I was ready for this guy to go at the end of season five, and I never would have predicted his evolution and partnership (of sorts) with Rick as the past few seasons went on Carol - I just wanted her to die in the early seasons. Not because she was annoying or anything, but because I felt like she was just sort of "there" and was clearly going to die for manpain. So glad to be wrong on this one. Worsened: Maggie - I liked a lot of what she did this past season but I had higher hopes for maggie when I first met her...in season 2 she seemed more consistent with what I understood about her in the comics. Going off of season two, I would have expected her to be much less passive and - in a way - sort of submissive than she has turned out to be overall. I dont hate maggie or anything, I just expected more from her. Daryl - I'll spare the details, but I do think part of it is that his first three seasons were almost perfect character development, and he had fully evolved by the end of season three...there was just no where to go with him after that and it shows. Carol - yup, I have to put her on both, because the guilt storyline this past season was so bad and made such little sense. I dont want to watch a character that had such great evolution have to sit on the sidelines because the dudes behind the scenes think its not okay for women to get shit done. And I miss the warmth and humor she used to have. Now she's all gloom and firepower. I'll add that Ezekiel is on my "watch" list. I think they've done an amazing job introducing him and I like him so much more than I could have expected, but they will need to manage the whole king thing really carefully next season, and they will need to go light on the man pain if the kingdom gets hit hard as we expect it to. I am not terribly worried about this, since he's already had some losses, but its always a concern
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Post by murph on Jun 29, 2017 10:41:29 GMT -5
Maggie is someone for me who has gotten worse too. I didn't like her in Season 2, and then in Season 3 I really warmed to her...that went away in Season 4 and I've just never gotten it back. I don't dislike her - and she has moments I enjoy or think she's a good character, but for the most part, since Season 3, I've just never really cared that much. She's always just been there for me and only something I pay attention to when she's part of something else (like Glaggie). But I feel that all about all three Greenes.
Tyreese got better for me. I liked him from the start but I think he's someone who got better and better and I never shared the frustration some audience had with him. I think his downhill part, where he took a step back and there was a question mark, actually just made him better for me, made him more interesting and more human.
Aaron is a second character who got better. Again, I never disliked him, but he got lumped in with Daryl so quickly I worried he'd remain there, but his friendship with Rick (and recently Father Gabriel) and his passion for fighting for Alexandria really upgraded him for me. I find him to be one of the most average characters - and I mean that in the best possible way. No OMG moments, or saving the day. He's just a constant presence; a part of a community, someone who loves and is loved in return and who doesn't stop trying.
I feel like Carl is someone who's gone up, down, up, down. Sometimes within the same episode!
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Meggo358
Retired Moderator
Aspiring Furiosa
Posts: 1,749
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Post by Meggo358 on Jun 29, 2017 10:53:28 GMT -5
murph, you summarized my feelings on Maggie as well. She's not terrible by any means but is just kind of there. Based on her behavior last season I don't see Glenn's death being the source of growth that so many insisted it would be (which was why Glenn just HAD to die, right?) Its funny you bring up Aaron and Carl because I was this close to putting both on my list for reasons similar to what you mentioned
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Post by murph on Jun 29, 2017 11:13:08 GMT -5
Deanna is someone who got better to me too. She was always a really strong character, I think mostly because of TF's acting, but her relationships with Michonne and Rick played out really well to me. On the other side of the family, Spencer got worse. There wasn't much there to start with but for a short amount of time he seemed to have some promise and then dude just like, dive-bombed lol Meggo358 I think Glenn's death just made her more...Maggie lol. Though I do think the narrative of 'this is what Glenn taught me' will continue. I want to say maybe being a mom will be something to give her character really something new - we never got to see her really do the protective sister thing with Beth, so this, in theory, should be a new aspect to her. But I'm not convinced the writers want her to be anything but exactly what she is and has been. And I liked your Father Gabriel inclusion! He's definitely surprised me for the better. Him coming through between the two couples of Caryl and Gleggie in The Same Boat with the riffle ready to take some names in the lord is a brilliant scene to me lol.
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Post by booksrbetter on Jun 29, 2017 14:17:05 GMT -5
Rosita-started not terrible and is now an absolute pain in the hiney Tara-somewhat endearing at first but there is no there for her character. Rick- he was a super good guy at first but I have liked him less each season. I'm hoping the writers make him a hero this season. Michonne- not ever really all that likeable except season four. Her relationship with Carl was sweet, but she's turned into Rick's support system and she is dull, dull, dull. Daryl-He's turned in Norman Reedus-enough said. Positives Sasha- The whole Abe thing was not well done but she will be missed. Carol- It's way past time for her to get through doldrums of the last couple of seasons, and I'll be as happy as anyone for Carol to have some happiness. I've enjoyed however (and I know I've alone in this) her switch from Happy Homemaker to Don't Give a rat's behind Carol. Carol going off to live it alone and not be a second to a male character. The only time she cooked for anyone but herself was for Daryl and it was because she wanted to. Then (which makes no sense, but I was glad to see it anyway) she reverted back to warrior mode when she finds out that Glenn and Abe were killed and that Team Family was threatened. MMB didn't have much to do last year but she did a lot with a little. Morgan- He's been compassionate, crazy, controlling, and now he is all of those things. I liked Morgan last season. If he can keep his demons at bay? He'll have a great season.
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Post by walkingdeadrules on Jun 30, 2017 8:14:58 GMT -5
What a great thread! Unfortunately you all took most of my choices. The only ones I'd add:
Characters who got better:
Hershel: He was very annoying I thought in Season 2 and became a lot more endearing in Seasons 3 and 4. The true father figure.
Jerry. Started kind of odd...and really grew on you. Too soon really,but very likeable
Simon/Steven Ogg. Talk about someone who grew on you. I find myself wishing he was on screen more, especially in lieu of Negan
Abe. Not a big fan at first, then got more attached with all of his quirkiness. Take out his scene of dumping Rosita which how he did it was a total jerk, and he was pretty likeable.
Characters who got worse:
Spencer. Started out not good, but descended into total douche and had a bad actor to boot. Very cringeworthy by the end
Dale. OMG. He was annoying as hell by the time he was killed off for me. I started out really liking him, and then he descended. I think they made Hershel into what Dale used to be.
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Post by dark sister on Jul 1, 2017 9:49:39 GMT -5
BETTER Tara - I did not like her at all in 4A but I started loving her in 4B Carol - Up until 5B, she was getting better and better. Carl - He's someone I found quite annoying at the beginning but I really enjoy him now that CR has improved as an actor
WORSE Daryl - by far the biggest drop in character for me. He was one of my favorites until S4, now I really only enjoy him when he has scenes with Carol Morgan - S6 really ruined Morgan for me, though he is getting more interesting agail Carol - since 5B Carol is getting worse for me, she's still my favorite but her never ending depression story has been irritating. Maggie - I liked Maggie a lot in S2/3 but after S4 I just haven't as much. I don't hate her by any means, she's just not one of my favorites.
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Post by Ripley on Jul 19, 2017 4:37:29 GMT -5
Great topic!
I agree with many of the choices here so will try to add different characters:
Grew on me:
Father Gabriel- Seth Gilliam is an amazing actor whose work I rewatched this summer on The Wire and also Oz.
Sasha- I found her annoying in season 3, grew like her in season 4 and hated to see her go in season 7.
Tara- Hoped she would die in 4-B, tolerated her in season 5 and now like her.
Meh
Enid- I tried to like her in season 5, found her a bit more interesting in season 6 and wondered why in the hell Maggie gave her Hershel & Glenn's watch? Enid has not fairly earned it with just a few conversations with Glenn and saving his life after Dumpstergate & the green balloons, IMO. I feel the watch should be saved for the baby or if Maggie has to give it to somebody, why Enid over Tara for instance. Tara was much closer to Glenn than Enid.
I know Enid is comic Sophia, but I dislike the character name and how they write her. The actor, Katelyn Nacon is terrific though and I like what little I know of her from social media.
Please die already:
Negan- I think superb actor Jeffrey Dean Morgan was woefully miscast as Negan and written poorly. Ogg would have made a better Negan IMO. I think the show burdened Morgan with too much, too soon & poor writing (twirl that cartoon mustache baby!) and the PR choice to focus on Negan backfired.
Writing Negan as stupid, as being able to be fooled by both Dwight and Eugene in 7-B was a mistake because Negan was much smarter in the comic. Smart is more scary than stupid so I think that was the tipping point in which Negan became just another rote villain whose grade school rhymes & Lucille are the only things setting him apart from every other villain on TV.
Dwight: I've tried hard to tolerate and like this character and continue failing. Even his turncoat support of Rick and the "good guys" in season 7 failed to warm my cold, dead heart for Dwight. How can Tara, Maggie and others ever tolerate being around him or trust him as an ally in the future?
Yes, he and Sherry made stupid, cowardly, soul-killing choices they tried to redeem, but that is on them, for staying with Negan and not trying harder to get away. They paid huge prices for that "safety" and Dwight went back and humbled himself to Negan which I just cannot respect. Sometimes you have to pay for stupid choices and not always get redemption- that's life in or out of the ZA.
Tobin: "Mr. Plot Device on the Nail and Screws aisle of Home Depot". The character is from the comic, so of course he was useful as a redshirt and cannon fodder for AOW. The show made him into a bit more with the brief Carol fling which was more about her needs and trying to hide her true self and pain, rather than about him. Tobin's inability to see the real Carol and his choice to see her was the warrior mother of ASZ were poorly written IMO as was his lack of concern for her once he delivered the note in season 6.
I'm ready for the show to kill him off and I wish other characters I prefer, like say Eric, were given Tobin's screen time and the air he breathes on the show. Clumsy character, not 3-D IMO. Just die already, Sir Redshirt of the Lumberyard!
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