King Ezekiel General Discussion

I really like Ezekiel as a leader. I like that he's so obviously good. I like that he wants to hear opinions of others, I like that he wants to protect and bases his decision and behaviour not just on his community's survival, but on them living.
The King thing doesn't bother me because I think we've been shown over and over that it isn't off-putting for others of the community, and that actually it can be helpful. And I think that's the measurement of it, how they react to it. His people like him, his second in commands are fine with challenging him, whether Jerry in small moments of smiling and eating when he shouldn't, or Richard who outright disagrees and will state it. The children are comfortable with him, and value his comfort. He obviously wants to nurture this community and actually take on the responsibility of not just their lives, but their spirits too. He wants to protect them both physically and emotionally. And he's in the physical thick of it, actually doing the work. This all verses Negan who may not call himself King but has a physical power structure of how people are treated and what they're entitled to with items and living areas showing it, and Gregory whom again, with the alcohol for example that he keeps where others don't and the massive manor house he resides in and he never physically participates. You don't see any of that from Ezekiel, even though the title of 'King' and the literal throne would suggest he'd be the one to be that way. 

So, I was really annoyed at something that I think was a failure of translating on screen in Bury Me Here.

The Morgan killing Richard scene where it can easily appear to the audience that Ezekiel and the Kingdom characters stand there and do nothing just because. Whereas actually, I think it was the right thing to do. And I don't think it was thoughtless. And I think there was a lot more in that scene that initially understood. Both for Ezekiel as an individual and his progression, and the wider framing of the season.

How much time has been spent this season on the debate of whether or not Daryl should have reacted to Negan, about what the consequences of that were. I think this was another version of that, and Ezekiel didn't make the same mistake as Daryl, didn't make the same mistake as Richard.

Every single time there's been a drop-off between The Saviors and the Kingdom a Kingdom character has stepped out of line and someone's paid for it. Every time. Richard gets punched, Morgan gets his stick taken away from him, Jerry gets hit, Ben gets shot. And Gavin makes this big show and dance in that episode about how it's because Ezekiel isn't listening, doesn't understand the seriousness - and because he's too emotional. That scene, with Gavin ordering nobody to interfere as Morgan killed Richard, as The Saviors held their guns on The Kingdom characters - Ezekiel had learned. Learned that if he interfered, in a situation with weapons pointed at them and had none of their own, it could cost another one of his friends. He'd been shown it wouldn't necessarily even have been him to pay the price. Jerry or Diane could have been the ones, the way Glenn was, the way Ben was (and if that had happened we would have had the same debate Daryl got after Glenn) He learned that that wasn't the time, that the only offensive action optional at the time could cost all of them, but that the right reaction was to regroup and then stand up and fight. Even him wanting to take that day first, to let his community have that day shows the same thing. That thought for the peace, for living, because he values it as vital to the functioning of people. It's so much of what he's tried to bring out in Carol.

So I do so wish that moment had been presented better on screen because I think its failure to translate is a real loss for Ezekiel, and at a time when we were really supposed to see him be rising and a general progression of learning from characters compared to the start of the season.

My thoughts about Ezekiel before the season, going by fan feedback and what l knew about the comics were pretty much



But I've been delighted with Ezekiels introduction. The show has done a pretty decent job of balancing his intergration into the lives of current characters (well, Morgan and Carol) while allowing us to see his life, goals and interests outside of TF members, which is something i haven't seen the show do that well in the past (think of Jesus and it almost feels like he's just been waiting around for Rick and co to show up).

He's a surprisingly savvy, charming and empathetic character. I'd like to see him interact with more of TF and build bonds outside of morgan and Carol. I'd also like to see him struggle/unravel just a little in trying to reconcile going to war with keeping from the kingdom safe. I'd also really, really like to see him not meet his comic fate anytime soon.

merelei He does have a queen and her name is Shiva.

murph I wish the scene with the saviors had played out better too. Yes, Gavin told them not to interfere, but I think many (like myself) missed that important point and had us wondering why no one from the Kingdom tried to pull Morgan off Richard. If Gimple's goal was to show the difference in reactions between Daryl/Rosita and the Kingdomers then he failed.

Meggo358 I was sure King Ezekiel and the Kingdom was going to be one giant fail, but for me it's the community with the best new characters, and I'm counting the ASZ in my opinion.

My only criticism of Khary's performance, and I admit it's nitpicking, is that he never broke character when Benjamin was shot. I wanted a couple of seconds where he dropped the royal act before quickly regaining it again.

Sexual Chocolate, maybe Gimple's failing was not the story itself but not communicating to the director of what that moment was fully trying to say? Wouldn't be the first time. I liked the rest of the direction of the episode and I maybe wouldn't blame the director for wanting the focus of that scene to be this really, intense thing, hence close ups and only an aerial of everybody? To make it feel more, more trapped and inward?

For some reason I can't edit my post but my mind is blown.  I completely missed the parallel.

Sexual Chocolate I'm completely with you on your comments about the kingdoms reaction to Morgan killing Richard. Judging by comments I've seen in a lot of places most people missed that Gavin told them not to intervene.

Kinda makes you wonder what other key things were totally busted due to editing and directing, doesn't it?

As for your comment about KP not breaking cover, I would agree with you on that one too. That would have been the right moment for it to happen and been much more realistic. and we know enough about the way the directors work on this show to know that it would have been up to KP to decide how to play that scene. I will say I liked the close ups of Ezekiel when Gavin told them to hand over their guns, not just because he's got a pretty face (though he really does), but because KP had a good scared/pissed combo situation going on - I actually wondered in that scene if he was about to snap - his performance there helped hold the tension of the moment, imo

I love Ezekiel, and Khary is an incredibly talented actor. I love Shiva, Jerry, the knights, the horses, the chorus singers, the garden. My only qualm about the Kingdom is I don't want Carol staying there permanently. She belongs with TF. Morgan has been shown to be much closer to the Kingdom than the ASZ. If the writers want some kind of link for the audience to the Kingdom (not that they need it, they already love Jerry, lol), Morgan makes the most sense, and his scenes with Zeke would be the most powerful. Let Carol return to her family, she's more than earned it!

I think this is a fair statement. I would have fully expected a more rousing, passionate, "we're going to war" moment to close this latest episode, instead we get a peaceful moment in the garden.

I liked that scene, and I like what it implies, but it was an odd way to approach the "get ready to fight" stance. I get that gimple is trying to delay until the finale but still...

At the bigger scale I have thought the "I won't help out until this has all affected me directly" was a little bit convenient, but I also think it's not an unreasonable perspective for Ezekiel to have - the weight of the burden to protect his people is probably pretty heavy. Still, of course the quick turnaround of the decision was so predictable. Which is Gimple, of course.

You know what just came to mind? I love that while they're depicting a much younger Ezekiel (in comparison to the comics), yet they kept his grey dreads. They could have easily gotten one with less grey, but they kept that consistent and I really appreciate that. I'm 32, 33 in October, and I have quite a bit of greying hair. I know it's fairly more common for younger people to have grey, so this really normalizes it and I LOVE IT.