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Post by kaze on Jan 4, 2017 22:06:30 GMT -5
Daryl has always been a follower. Rick chose Daryl as his brother over Shane because even if Daryl voiced opposition to Rick, he always fell in line regardless. Carol and Martinez were right in calling Daryl Rick's henchman, and based on how much it bothered Daryl, he knows he's Rick's henchman. However, after unilaterally banishing Carol and not making any effort to rescue him from the Sanctuary, I'm not sure Daryl can truthfully say Rick's done alright by him anymore. I agree with Ripley that Daryl doesn't seem like he's cut out to be a leader. I get the feeling Daryl will be bouncing around between the different communities from now on, which seems perfect for him. That way he could stay in contact with everyone and be important to all the communities without the stress of being a leader. I can't think of many good reasons for him to stay at ASZ with Rick. Rick has Michonne, Father Gabriel, Aaron and Carl now, so he wouldn't really need Daryl anymore. If the saviors are still after him it would probably be unsafe to stay there. Daryl never felt comfortable in ASZ from the start, so I think he'd take the opportunity to move his home base somewhere else. I need to see 7B before I can make a decision on where I think he'll end up, though.
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Post by v on Jan 4, 2017 22:29:10 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes. I think Daryl is capable of leadership when he's given the chance. He's just gotten so used to being told what to do and having no aim in life that I imagine sometimes he has a hard time making decisions or making decisions he feels are right. Having two controlling older brothers myself, I can relate. We've seen him stand up to Rick and I love those moments but I want him to move up from the status of right-hand man. It could be the Daryl lover in me talking, but I think he's too good for that. I want him become a leader of his own community. Whether or not that will ever happen, is another question entirely. I would love for him and Carol to lead a community together. They'd complete each other. *sap*In conclusion, Mia , no, you are definitely not the only one who feels this way. The one time Daryl tried being a leader in the ASZ-era, in 'Always Accountable", remember, he ran into Dwight, Sherry, Penny and that group. He considered asking them to ASZ, and started the questions but lost his bike, crossbow and self-confidence as a result of taking that risk. Norman Reedus and TPTB articles have made a big deal of that moment and the consequences of Daryl's taking a risk yet failing there, so we know it is significant. I used ot think Daryl was a (potential) leader in the same vein as Rick or as Glenn grew into being but in recent seasons backed away from that thought. Yes, he followed Merle around and later Rick, but was always able to come up with ideas and plans such as when Sophia was lost, when he and Glenn tracked Randall and Shane, plus throughout seasons 3-4. Post-4-B, aka the "Season of Many Fans' Discontent" Daryl backed away and regressed from that. Sure, some of that came from the deaths of Bob, Beth and Tyreese since we were told that interviews and appearances, but Daryl only recovered from that slump for a short time with Aaron. He did well there and seemed back to his old self. Denise's death seemed to trigger another regression, effectively erasing most of his recent growth and then boom! Lineup time, a Negan punch and Glenn is dead, with Daryl again blaming himself (as we have been told in interviews, TDead appearances etc. His captivity in season 7, plus the need to stay one step ahead of The Saviors, (who have played the control game well IMO) adds additional stressors for Daryl who has not even had time to deal with the emotional and physical wounds of imprisonment. So the show may have him roar back unscathed but if so, I will be , again. Thi swill likely be an unpopular opinion (which is fine) but I think Daryl can be a terrific tier-2 leader, like a squad leader or a leader Rick can delegate to quite well. I do not think at this point, we have seen Daryl owning the same exact abilities as Rick to be capable of leading the entire group. YMMV/Mileage, of course. this is the main issue with Daryl being a leader. he is not a good fit for leadership because he does get sucked into cycles of over whelming grief, and does make choices out of anger ( looking for dwight after denise's death, attacking Negan) that have very negative consequences. While I understand why he does the things he does, those are not qualities for a good leader. Also, he has never really WANTED to be a leader. content to follow and step up as needed only. side note here: Yes I love rick but I am also very aware of his short comings as a character and a leader. this is about Daryl so I am sticking to that.
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Post by Mia on Jan 4, 2017 22:47:48 GMT -5
Daryl has always been a follower. Rick chose Daryl as his brother over Shane because even if Daryl voiced opposition to Rick, he always fell in line regardless. Carol and Martinez were right in calling Daryl Rick's henchman, and based on how much it bothered Daryl, he knows he's Rick's henchman. However, after unilaterally banishing Carol and not making any effort to rescue him from the Sanctuary, I'm not sure Daryl can truthfully say Rick's done alright by him anymore. I agree with Ripley that Daryl doesn't seem like he's cut out to be a leader. I get the feeling Daryl will be bouncing around between the different communities from now on, which seems perfect for him. That way he could stay in contact with everyone and be important to all the communities without the stress of being a leader. I can't think of many good reasons for him to stay at ASZ with Rick. Rick has Michonne, Father Gabriel, Aaron and Carl now, so he wouldn't really need Daryl anymore. If the saviors are still after him it would probably be unsafe to stay there. Daryl never felt comfortable in ASZ from the start, so I think he'd take the opportunity to move his home base somewhere else. I need to see 7B before I can make a decision on where I think he'll end up, though. I agree with this. I think Daryl will just bounce around from group to group and doing what needs to be done. Rick really doesn't need him anymore. They can still be brothers that live in different places. Plus Rick makes Daryl boring. It is always the same kinda scene. Rick goes crazy wants to do something stupid and Daryl talks him down. It is getting old!
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2017 22:51:55 GMT -5
To be fair towards Daryl and every other character who have dealth with grief, depression, losses, etc, it is very hard to lead and be focused with a clear perspective when one is dealing (or not dealing lol) with emotional trauma, so I give all the characters a certain level of pass for that. kaze you raise some great points here about how Daryl could routinely shift between communities and be a sort of liaison to everyone. We know he was successful at the prison since he and Glenn were sort of recruiters there, bringing Bob and others home. As a sort of roving ambassador in which he calls his own shots but has a general sort of mission, would be terrific for Daryl IMO since he could call one area home base, but travel constantly, keeping his senses and knowledge updated to changes within all the communities. It would give him a chance to rebuild the self-confidence he lost after that encounter and "failure" as Norman and TPTB have called it, within l"always Accountable" AS Mia noted in her OP, Daryl could get some space away from Rick who now has more people to assist him at ASZ, but in the comic as part of All Out War, all the groups end up at Hilltop anyway, for various reasons, and go back to rebuild after defeating Negan and The Saviors. This is how I see Daryl going after the war, taking time to figure out what he wants and where he wants to be, as he rebuilds his life.
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Post by Starlight on Jan 5, 2017 10:35:25 GMT -5
Ripley My feeing is that Daryl won't be a leader like Rick. but where he ends up permanently the place will have structure similar to the prison. When Rick decided go become a farmer for 6-7 months. Daryl had a huge role along with the other characters who were on that board making decisions on how the prison should be run.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Jan 5, 2017 19:08:35 GMT -5
I don't think Daryl wants to Lead with a capital "L". He could and would if he had to, but I think he prefers being a soldier.
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Post by greaterpursuit on Jan 5, 2017 19:22:39 GMT -5
The Daryl as emissary between communities story arc makes sense from a business perspective as well as it places the GA's favorite character in multiple story lines guaranteeing more screen time. More Daryl = more money, more ratings. For the GA, at least.
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Post by MorganBGone on Jan 5, 2017 19:41:30 GMT -5
So, with the predictions of Daryl's being a go-between, where does "settling down" fit into all of that? I guess I'm still stuck on 4x01 Daryl as the most solid version we've seen. Yes, he had insecurities, but he was excelling in that role -- a role of joint leadership. And, the person who was the yin to his yang in that case was Carol. Looking at the two of them as a leadership diad, it appeared that Carol as the one looking after the community from inside held a little more power (denying Daryl people for his mission), yet he clearly had a leadership role on the "outside" -- bringing in new people, organizing runs. In an ideal world, that's what I'd like to see him get back to, and that's not a role I see his really fulfilling as Rick's underling. We were shown clearly in season 6 that Rick can be completely out of tune with Daryl and will ultimately call the shots regardless. A role similar to what he had at the prison would also get him back to a position where he could settle down in a community while still having outdoor privileges... and I'm not sure Alexandria is the right community specifically for him any more than I'm convinced it's right for Carol. A more communal form of living just seemed more suited to the two complimentary caregivers. I agree with Starlight (I think it was you?) that siblings ultimately separate. It's family of birth vs family of choosing as a major path to growth, and that doesn't mean choosing a new dominant brother figure; it typically means finding a partner a or individuating in some other way. IMO, Daryl's relationship with Rick can only escape that dominant sibling model if Daryl actually takes steps to become independent of Rick. Ultimately, I'm not convinced that Rick's leadership style would ever allow for that if they're in the same community. He is, after all, first and foremost the ricktator.
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