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Post by Ripley on Nov 29, 2016 2:05:20 GMT -5
moviepilot "...While the show has undoubtedly built some goodwill from fans over its seven seasons, not even the most loyal of viewers have been particularly tolerant of this approach. Instead of hooking fans who may have considered leaving after the divisive opening of Season 7, The Walking Dead has decided to fragment the narrative more than ever before, leaving multiple episodes in between storylines that tracked the various splinter groups... ...Cast your mind back a few seasons to when the Scooby Gang were all separated, but shared a common goal: fighting tooth and nail to reunite in the 'safe haven' Terminus. Just like Season 7, audiences were forced to regularly switch between different groups — but the difference here was that all of our favorite characters still appeared on a weekly basis. Rather than waiting several weeks to catch up with our favorite characters, we only had to wait several minutes — making every episode compulsory viewing, regardless of which characters we were waiting to see. It's now become far easier to skip episodes once you realize that your favorite characters aren't scheduled to appear that week. Combine this with The Walking Dead's typically slow burn approach to storytelling and AMC has begun to run the genuine risk of losing half their audience in the space of one season. After all, once you've missed one or two episodes, it becomes harder and harder to re-immerse yourself in the show, and your pangs for zombie life become fewer and further apart..." link
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Post by AlienSoul on Nov 29, 2016 5:16:51 GMT -5
I'm really glad that nearly all the reviews out there are criticizing the bottle-episode style of storytelling this show has fallen into. TAKE NOTICE, AMC AND GIMPLE.
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Post by MorganBGone on Nov 29, 2016 6:23:53 GMT -5
Well, I agree that the group switching is a problem, but they're off-base in casting us back to season 4. There were at least 3 episodes, I believe, that focused in on only one group in 4b, excluding multiple favourites each time, and 4a of course had the two atrocious Governor eps. Carol and Tyreese appeared in a whopping 2 eps in 4b and Carol in only 6 eps the whole season, so... There was a lot of waiting if Carol -- or even Ty -- was one's favourite. The difference was that we assumed this was a unique occurrence that would end with the reuniting of team family. And then, in 5a we got more standalone eps despite that reunion as gimple seemingly *looked for* excuses to split the group up... And then failed to crosscut groups. And then, even with everyone in one place in Alexandria, the same thing happened all over again in season 6. It's not that it was ever effective; it's that it was frustrating but there seemed to be an end in sight... And then there was a crazy notion that Gimple might actually alter course, recognizing that the audience and critics alike weren't happy with that approach... And now? It's just accepted, with no end in sight 4 seasons into Gimple's reign, that it's never going to stop, especially with so many groups and locations in play. Between that and other poor writing choices that have been pointed out and yet still persisted, viewers are giving up.
Gimple, both in his inability/unwillingness to cut between groups and his failure to take critism seriously, seemingly believing his personal vision to exceed in importance and "rightness" what viewers wanted to see, is the problem and has been every season... Because he never fixed what didn't work in the first place.
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Post by Starlight on Nov 29, 2016 7:26:24 GMT -5
The only way to save TWD is to remove SG as the frontrunner and maybe put him back in the writing room. And hire a set of new writers. Writers who can actually write consistly and don't try to change canon scenes or change characters to fit a stupid plot.
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Post by murph on Nov 29, 2016 8:37:49 GMT -5
The only way to save TWD is to remove SG as the frontrunner and maybe put him back in the writing room. And hire a set of new writers. Writers who can actually write consistly and don't try to change canon scenes or change characters to fit a stupid plot. I found it interesting that AM said on Talking Dead that it was a non-staff writer who wrote Swear. Pretty sure she said he had never written Tara before and either hadn't met her before or didn't know her.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 29, 2016 8:51:40 GMT -5
The only way to save TWD is to remove SG as the frontrunner and maybe put him back in the writing room. And hire a set of new writers. Writers who can actually write consistly and don't try to change canon scenes or change characters to fit a stupid plot. I found it interesting that AM said on Talking Dead that it was a non-staff writer who wrote Swear. Pretty sure she said he had never written Tara before and either hadn't met her before or didn't know her. he worked as Frank Darabont's assistant for 5 years including TWD (he wrote Triggerfinger in s 2) and Mob City. I started a topic this morning with his credits and CV here
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Post by nana on Nov 29, 2016 8:53:08 GMT -5
The only way to save TWD is to remove SG as the frontrunner and maybe put him back in the writing room. And hire a set of new writers. Writers who can actually write consistly and don't try to change canon scenes or change characters to fit a stupid plot. I found it interesting that AM said on Talking Dead that it was a non-staff writer who wrote Swear. Pretty sure she said he had never written Tara before and either hadn't met her before or didn't know her. He has written for the show before, though.. he wrote Triggerfinger and I heard he wrote Chupacabra in season 2. If he wrote the latter, he got Daryl down. He probably watched a few Tara episodes to get down her humor. Hopefully he will write some more episodes this season. I am curious why they went with an outside writer.
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Post by Starlight on Nov 29, 2016 8:54:43 GMT -5
The only way to save TWD is to remove SG as the frontrunner and maybe put him back in the writing room. And hire a set of new writers. Writers who can actually write consistly and don't try to change canon scenes or change characters to fit a stupid plot. I found it interesting that AM said on Talking Dead that it was a non-staff writer who wrote Swear. Pretty sure she said he had never written Tara before and either hadn't met her before or didn't know her. The writer who wrote Swear David Leslie Johnson, has only were written two previous episodes Chupacabra and Triggerfinger and they were back in season 2.. So AM thinking he was new is understandable . I wonder if there will be other episodes in the season written by old writers from the old seasons.
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Post by murph on Nov 29, 2016 9:19:49 GMT -5
I found it interesting that AM said on Talking Dead that it was a non-staff writer who wrote Swear. Pretty sure she said he had never written Tara before and either hadn't met her before or didn't know her. The writer who wrote Swear David Leslie Johnson, has only were written two previous episodes Chupacabra and Triggerfinger and they were back in season 2.. So AM thinking he was new is understandable . I wonder if there will be other episodes in the season written by old writers from the old seasons. I don't want to misquote her but pretty sure she said or implied something to the effect of it being the first time Gimple had...fuck I can't remember her wording. Pretty sure the word "first" was said. And Gimple. And like I said, she did make it about Tara - she said he had never written Tara before, which with him being an older writer, is true I guess. No idea if she knew he was a previous writer or not though.You'd think she would know that. Interesting Gimple would do that. What I worry about is he'll take this as an inaccurate reading that hiring outsider writers (to whatever degree of 'outsider'. Not on the current list until this episode) is not a good idea because of this episode. If he wants the justification to say it's been tried and tested and it doesn't work, he can find it in the fact that it happened within a failing season. I personally think that would be a terribly simplistic and stupid thing to think, but I could see Gimple going that way if it's what he wants to believe. However, a lot of the reviews seem to actually like the episode itself. The issue is with it's placement and within methods throughout the whole season. I don't think I've seen maybe reviews actually criticising the writing of the episode? Hopefully that will make a difference if other writers is something he's debating about doing. Thanks for the info, guys. And the thread link, Ripley Very interesting about the Darabont assistant role! I wonder if it means Gimple is looking for some other direction, some other option or method. And I understand why he would look for it from something he feels is still familiar/successful within the show, going back to its roots in a way. Maybe there's hope?
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Post by Starlight on Nov 30, 2016 7:46:44 GMT -5
The bottle episodes format is a huge issue with the show. And sadly I don't think SG is going to change that format for season 8. In season 7 we will get ASZ, Hilltop, The Kindgom, Sanctuary, Junkyard group and the oceanside. And all these groups and their locations will be used in season 8 for AOW... so season 8 could end up resembling season 7...
I also noticed that the show has a 2 year contract with Tyler Perry studios. So either the show is going to completely remix The Kindgom on the show. or they are simply going to use the place for other filming.
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Post by booksrbetter on Nov 30, 2016 10:02:56 GMT -5
If you know that your audience hates bottle episodes? Why do you continue to write bottle episodes? Arrogance and narrow vision. The arrogance is the result of doing less than stellar work but still getting accolades. TWD got rating on their premiere from the cliffhanger. We really should have boycotted it. The narrow vision is from writing the show as a rerun of the comic. Then having to write characters doing stupid things so that the show can depict an "iconic moment" like the gross and unnecessary death of the Anderson family. Rick had pursued her through for episodes, fought with her husband and ultimately killed him. She dies from terminal stupidity but our hero Rick in the very next episode is seen initiating sex with Michonne. Apparently no one thought that maybe that Richonne would be better served to happen later in the season. Apparently the "Brodudes" control the message. There will be no progress at TWD until an adult is in charge. Someone who allows Gimple to write, tells Kirkman to take his money but his input is no longer needed, and reminds Nicotero that his greatest creations are all made of plastic and goo. Great characters are not. So do what you do best and stay with your gruesome toys and let the adults direct the episodes. TWD quite like The Wizard of Oz has characters who have lots of courage but lack heart and brains. Two more seasons of bottle episodes and Negan will end TWD. I am more on the computer than watching when it is one my tv screen. Soon, I won't watch it live, and then I won't watch it live.
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Post by gioia on Nov 30, 2016 10:54:03 GMT -5
If you know that your audience hates bottle episodes? Why do you continue to write bottle episodes? Arrogance and narrow vision. The arrogance is the result of doing less than stellar work but still getting accolades. TWD got rating on their premiere from the cliffhanger. We really should have boycotted it. The narrow vision is from writing the show as a rerun of the comic. Then having to write characters doing stupid things so that the show can depict an "iconic moment" like the gross and unnecessary death of the Anderson family. Rick had pursued her through for episodes, fought with her husband and ultimately killed him. She dies from terminal stupidity but our hero Rick in the very next episode is seen initiating sex with Michonne. Apparently no one thought that maybe that Richonne would be better served to happen later in the season. Apparently the "Brodudes" control the message. There will be no progress at TWD until an adult is in charge. Someone who allows Gimple to write, tells Kirkman to take his money but his input is no longer needed, and reminds Nicotero that his greatest creations are all made of plastic and goo. Great characters are not. So do what you do best and stay with your gruesome toys and let the adults direct the episodes. TWD quite like The Wizard of Oz has characters who have lots of courage but lack heart and brains. Two more seasons of bottle episodes and Negan will end TWD. I am more on the computer than watching when it is one my tv screen. Soon, I won't watch it live, and then I won't watch it live. I remember with Gimple, Andy and Steven were on a Times Talks program maybe 2 years ago. Gimple said he treats TWD TV show like his own personal "very expensive" fanfiction. Also, he wants actors/characters that can carry a whole episode by themselves. So I'm afraid we won't see the end of the bottle episodes any time soon. He's under the impression that these side characters are interesting/strong enough to hold our attention and that we would rather focus on one at a time instead of TF. Yes, he's very arrogant.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 30, 2016 11:16:48 GMT -5
If you know that your audience hates bottle episodes? Why do you continue to write bottle episodes? Arrogance and narrow vision. The arrogance is the result of doing less than stellar work but still getting accolades. TWD got rating on their premiere from the cliffhanger. We really should have boycotted it. The narrow vision is from writing the show as a rerun of the comic. Then having to write characters doing stupid things so that the show can depict an "iconic moment" like the gross and unnecessary death of the Anderson family. Rick had pursued her through for episodes, fought with her husband and ultimately killed him. She dies from terminal stupidity but our hero Rick in the very next episode is seen initiating sex with Michonne. Apparently no one thought that maybe that Richonne would be better served to happen later in the season. Apparently the "Brodudes" control the message. There will be no progress at TWD until an adult is in charge. Someone who allows Gimple to write, tells Kirkman to take his money but his input is no longer needed, and reminds Nicotero that his greatest creations are all made of plastic and goo. Great characters are not. So do what you do best and stay with your gruesome toys and let the adults direct the episodes. TWD quite like The Wizard of Oz has characters who have lots of courage but lack heart and brains. Two more seasons of bottle episodes and Negan will end TWD. I am more on the computer than watching when it is one my tv screen. Soon, I won't watch it live, and then I won't watch it live. AMC will never allow Kirkman to be detached or not have final control of content; right now Kirkman has the most power of all TPTB and gets his way when the others all disagree. Kirkman will never allow it either. He'd pack up his rights and licenses and go home, leaving the network in the very scary position of not being able to use the comic source material, not license merchandise around the comic, characters etc, plus very expensive litigation too, no doubt. AMC would be left unable to even license the name "The Walking Dead' for the show and so the big money -maker for the network would be canceled ASAP. So that will never happen.I have heard, from multiple sources, that the show and writer's room are basically dudebro heaven, which doesn't surprise me at all. I think hiring more diverse staff might help, but I doubt the network and TPTB would allow that or even allow storylines to change, because "why fix what isn't broke" and yes, Gimple likes his fiefdom, while Kirkman is amused to allow him to think that, because it is really all Kirkman's fief anyway. Gale Anne Hurd, the political teflon queen, is busy woking on all her other projects and basically checked out from the day to day stuff after season 3, although she is happy to show up at cons and panels to discuss her projects, service TWD/FTWD a little and pretend she is still deeply involved with both. David Alpert is so busy raking in the money from the Senoia area businesses (Nic N Norman's the Woodbury Shoppe and others once or now open) he co-owns, and FTWD that he really doesn't have time to do more than show up at the big cons and Talking Dead as needed. Greg Nicotero is having a ball doing SFX for TWD/FTWD plus other projects, designing walkers and giving freedom to his inner filmmaker, plus deciding exactly what goes onto the burgers, and other aspects of Nic N Normans, that he doesn't really have much time these days except when needed for interviews, panels and the few Cons he does as himself. Denise Huth probably has the time, but is kept off to the side for PR as needed. Angela Kang is now part of TPTB, but like Denise Huth, she is kept away from most daily operations and either writes or is pulled out and dusted off as needed for solidarity and photo ops.
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Post by Sexual Chocolate on Nov 30, 2016 12:52:36 GMT -5
Ripley so what you're saying is that we're screwed no matter how low the ratings get.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 30, 2016 12:54:58 GMT -5
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